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“Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#41

Post by booleandilemma »

behrlich wrote: post #26
superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

> completely obsessed with the project, like it’s their main hobby/purpose I think you figured it out.

If your main hobby or purpose is to make someone else rich you're a slave.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#42

Post by alfalfasprout »

wiggidy wrote: post #9

"Measuring productivity is fraught and imperfect" For the moment, but it's better than it's ever been, and it's getting better.

Not really. How do you quantify tech debt? How do you quantify the tradeoffs that someone made to add new functionality?

This is always going to have a critical subjective element to it.

The moment you start treating engineers like factory floor workers, that's what you get.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#43

Post by [deleted] »

jaggederest wrote: post #5

I like this article particularly because I think the trope that there's something unique and different about software engineering is pretty toxic, both to we people in the field and people looking to employ people in the field. These days it feels a bit like another well known toxic field, finance, in that people conflate an outsized leverage for personal valor. It's laudable to do your work well and go home to the r…

[deleted]

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#44

Post by pests »

gmm1990 wrote: post #28
n_ary wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time…

Are there any open source repositories where this is an example? I keep hearing the 10x people ruin everything but I wouldn’t call that person 10x. I don’t understand how it’s objectionable that some people are more productive than others.

I have a buddy that helped me out with some DIY/construction projects. He thinks he is a 10x as well since he gets so much done so quickly. He will finish up and sit down saying its done. I go look and every tool is literally everywhere, garbage and debris thrown about, and half the stuff is incorrectly installed as he didn't think he needed to read the instructions and missed key details.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#45

Post by Muromec »

ultra-boss wrote: post #2

"A truly great engineering organization is one where perfectly normal, workaday software engineers, with decent skills and an ordinary amount of expertise, can consistently move fast, ship code, respond to users, understand the systems they’ve built, and move the business forward a little bit more, day by day, week by week." plus plus plus plus plus to this.

I want to believe, but has anymore ever worked at such great organization?

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#46

Post by nntwozz »

strangattractor wrote: post #22
jaggederest wrote: post #5

I like this article particularly because I think the trope that there's something unique and different about software engineering is pretty toxic, both to we people in the field and people looking to employ people in the field. These days it feels a bit like another well known toxic field, finance, in that people conflate an outsized leverage for personal valor. It's laudable to do your work well and go home to the r…

I was once considered a 10X. I would work all night. Rewrite code simply because I found it objectionable - lots of things I'd never do now. Mostly after working those long hours I return after a long rest and spend most of my time fixing all the new and ridiculous problems I created while working tired. Things may have gotten done a little faster. Never once did it even matter - there was no material benefit to the…

"Focusing is about saying no." — Steve Jobs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgL8fpya8BA

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#48

Post by shadowgovt »

Even Google eventually realized that if all you incentivize is 10x engineers, you end up with a sack of cats clawing at each other for advancement perpetually and spend a fortune on trying to retain enough institutional knowledge to do the keep-the-lights-on work. They removed the "Engineers at this level are expected to continuously improve and seek more responsibility" language from several higher rungs of their expectations ladder.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#49

Post by valiant55 »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #39

I think kind, industrious, and smart people make great teams. I once took up a lot of space to be a super productive engineer and only ended up being isolated. The business saw that some engineers were saying things worked great and were easy, so more responsibility was thrown on me and the other engineers moved to another project that needed headcount. Me and another guy ended up building on and maintaining what use…

> I had to do things like guess hostnames and find out how and where things were running..

This isn't the worst thing in the world. I'd rather inherit something with little/no documentation that followed the standard business practices (e.g naming conventions, nothing crazy bespoke) and have to do an afternoon of investigation than have to read documentation that's inaccurate. Of course the best option is full documenation but due to the nature of business that isn't always possible.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#50

Post by romanhn »

vrnvu wrote: post #36

> 10x engineers have dark backgrounds, are rarely seen doing user-interface work, and are poor mentors and interviewers If you think a great (10x) engineer has bad social skills, isn’t a good mentor, and isn’t a strong teammate… you’ve never actually worked with one. What truly makes someone a great engineer is being technically impeccable and having next-level soft skills.

Exactly. While 10x (or whatever) is possible on pure technical ability, I would argue that the majority of engineers who provide outsized value do so through enabling others to do their best work and unblocking the wave that raises all the boats, rather than coding by themselves in a dark room.
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