“Normal” engineers are the key to great teams • Hacker News Board

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#31

Post by alfalfasprout » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:37 PM UTC

The other important thing to consider is that 10x engineers are deemed so based on productivity. But productivity isn't necessarily the be all end all.

In fact, an arguably more important skill is know when not to do something and how to avoid tech debt. Building towards a north star sustainably and incrementally in such a way that pivots along the way don't require major bandaids or rewrites is how a good engineering org operates.

In the real world a lot of 10x engineers end up just launching a bunch of hacky garbage to frontload impact and leave the cleanup for everyone else. This can work for some time in organizations with phenomenal build and test infrastructure; however, it eventually becomes crippling and hinders everyone's velocity.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#32

Post by alfalfasprout » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

gmm1990 wrote: post #28

n_ary wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time…

Are there any open source repositories where this is an example? I keep hearing the 10x people ruin everything but I wouldn’t call that person 10x. I don’t understand how it’s objectionable that some people are more productive than others.

The question is in how they're productive. If they're productive because they're effectively cutting corners and leaving a wake of tech debt others have to clean up then they are productive while slowing down their team (or worse, the company) as a whole.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#33

Post by hakaneskici » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

You're right. Coming from my own startup to Microsoft, I worked the same way for quite a long time. Huge regret.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#34

Post by YetAnotherNick » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

n_ary wrote: post #12

nullpoint420 wrote: post #4

Most 10x engineers I've met are usually very creative and care deeply about the user experience and keeping code maintainable over time. Most 1x developers just care about getting the job done regardless of care or code quality, which in my experience has led to conflict.

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time…

Hard disagree. If they don't consistently write maintainable and reliable code, they are not 10x engineer no matter how smart they are.

e.g. Linus is a classic 10x or 100x engineer and his code(Linux, Git etc) has been maintained by a completely uncoordinated team for decades.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#35

Post by Muromec » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

MyOutfitIsVague wrote: post #25

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

Some people just really like the work they do. There's nothing more to it than that.

Sometimes it isn't even that I like to do something, I just have a very strong feeling it has to be done. The code is asking to be written, the energy has to be spent to lower the entropy. But at least nowdays I can close the damn work laptop at time and not open it until the morning, unlike some a decade or two ago.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#36

Post by vrnvu » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

> 10x engineers have dark backgrounds, are rarely seen doing user-interface work, and are poor mentors and interviewers

If you think a great (10x) engineer has bad social skills, isn’t a good mentor, and isn’t a strong teammate… you’ve never actually worked with one. What truly makes someone a great engineer is being technically impeccable and having next-level soft skills.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#37

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

superconduct123 wrote: post #24

I think 10x is an exaggeration but I've found its really common to have 1-2 people who do a big bulk of the work The thing I don't understand personally with these people is why they care so much about work when the rewards are not proportionate to doing so much extra work. I get it if you're a founder of a startup but not if you're at a big company Yet every big company I've worked at there are always 1-2 people on…

[deleted]

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#38

Post by threatofrain » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #29

An average engineer with solid problem-solving skills and a good manager is like a ~3x engineer. It's way easier to hire a few of those than a 10x engineer. But you need to match them up with a good manager, and that isn't easy.

When people say "average" they're trying to reach for a concept of 1x engineer, not 3x engineer.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#39

Post by TriangleEdge » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

I think kind, industrious, and smart people make great teams.

I once took up a lot of space to be a super productive engineer and only ended up being isolated. The business saw that some engineers were saying things worked great and were easy, so more responsibility was thrown on me and the other engineers moved to another project that needed headcount. Me and another guy ended up building on and maintaining what used be a reasonably sized team. It got on me because I made sure to know everything so I could make it as great as I could. This sounds good, but this particular business didn't care about me at all, I was just another gear.

I've met "productive" engineers that got things done really quickly from the business perspective, then moved on to being awesome somewhere else. But, they also took shortcuts, didn't write documentation, and made things unmaintainable. When I joined the team after they were being awesome somewhere else, I had to do things like guess hostnames and find out how and where things were running..

The people I've liked working with the most have been parents. The boundaries are more clear, they value stability, and aren't heros.

Re: “Normal” engineers are the key to great teams

#40

Post by whstl » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

n_ary wrote: post #12

nullpoint420 wrote: post #4

Most 10x engineers I've met are usually very creative and care deeply about the user experience and keeping code maintainable over time. Most 1x developers just care about getting the job done regardless of care or code quality, which in my experience has led to conflict.

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time…

Wait... "Most" 1x engineers? "Most" in any profession will be average. Which is completely normal and fine.

This kind of reply is just flipping the stereotype and going in another insane extreme without any evidence at all, just conflating productivity with recklessness...