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OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#151

Post by bluSCALE4 »

falcor84 wrote: post #104
croes wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you're allowed to make personal copies of copyright works that you own. That’s not the point. It’s about books you don’t own. Are you allowed to download books from Z-Library, Sci-Hub etc. because you want to learn?

To the best of my knowledge, no individual has ever been sued or prosecuted specifically for downloading books. As long as you're not massively sharing them with others, it's not an issue in practice. Enjoy your reading and learning.

Wow, just wow.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#152

Post by [deleted] »

triceratops wrote: post #107
conjectures wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does apply to people? When you read a copy of a book, you can't be sued for making a copy of the book in the synapses of your brain. Now, if you have eidetic memory and write out large chunks of the book from memory and publish them, that's what you could be sued for.

> When you read a copy of a book They're not talking about reading a book FFS. You absolutely can be sued for illegally obtaining a copy of the book.

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#153

Post by philipkglass »

triceratops wrote: post #142
ben_w wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with libraries. OpenAI started with the internet. The argument for both is identical, your objection is specific to libraries. IIRC, Google already did your sidenote. Or started to, may have had legal issues.

> The argument for both is identical How so? I don't have to pay to read most websites. To read most books I have to pay (or a library has to pay and I have to wait to get the book). > IIRC, Google already did your sidenote Not quite. They had to chop the spines off books and have humans feed them into scanners. I'm talking about a robot that can walk (or roll) into a library, use arms to take books off the shelves,…

They had humans turn the pages of intact books in scanning machines. The books mostly came from the shelves of academic libraries and were returned to the shelves after scanning. You can see some incidental captures of hands/fingers in the scans on Google Books or HathiTrust (the academic home of the Google Books scans). There are some examples collected here:

https://theartofgooglebooks.tumblr.com/

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#154

Post by Terretta »

crorella wrote: post #87
Terretta wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the companies training the models are stealing the content from the internet Are you stealing a billboard when you see and remember it? The notion that consuming the web is "stealing" needs to stop.

We are not taking about billboards here, we are talking about copyrighted works, like books. If you want to do mental gymnastics and call "consuming" the web the act of downloading books without paying for them, then go ahead, but don't pretend the rest will buy your delusion.

On the contrary, even telling people which billboards are posted about what, and how to get to them to look at them, is "how it works".

But the courts will get to clarify (in today's news):

https://www.reuters.com/legal/news-corp-sued-by-brave-softwa...

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#155

Post by triceratops »

observationist wrote: post #150
triceratops wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed.

It seems reasonably within the bounds described by fair use, but nobody's ever tested that particular constellation of factors in a lawsuit, so there's no precedent - hand copying a book, that is. 17 U.S.C. § 107 is the fair use carveout. Interestingly, digitizing and copying a book on your own, for your own private use, has also not been brought to court. Major rights holders seem to not want this particular fair us…

> there's no precedent - hand copying a book, that is

Thank you! I had looked this up myself last week, so I knew this. I had long believed, as GP does, that copying anything you own without distribution is either allowed or fair use. I wanted GP to learn as I did.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#156

Post by whatshisface »

dcchambers wrote: post #148
napsterbr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are beyond the "theory" phase by now. Just yesterday I saw the president of a country advertising the products of a private company (Trump making an obvious marketing ploy for Tesla). How can this ever be acceptable?

> How can this ever be acceptable? Because the only people capable of holding him accountable won't do it. The system is broken. The US Government/Constitution depends too much on the assumption that people will do the right thing.

The failure relative to the original expectations seems to be that the other branches of government aren't fighting to retain their authority because the things they're being overridden to do align too well with what they would do themselves.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#157

Post by kgdiem »

jlev wrote: post #135
falcor84 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of my knowledge, no individual has ever been sued or prosecuted specifically for downloading books. As long as you're not massively sharing them with others, it's not an issue in practice. Enjoy your reading and learning.

Aaron Swartz, cofounder of Reddit and inventor of RSS and Markdown, was hounded to death by an overzealous prosecutor for downloading articles from JSTOR, with the intent to learn from them. He was charged with over a million dollars in fines and could have faced 35 years in prison. He and Sam Altman were in the same YC class. OpenAI is doing the same thing at a larger scale, and their technology actually reproduces…

Will what OpenAI & others serve as precedent for Alexandra Elbakyan of SciHub and avenge Aaron?

Cynically, I imagine it will not but I hope that it could.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#158

Post by scudsworth »

wildpeaks wrote: post #57
Cheer2171 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate this game. This is tech. This is how it has always been. From Archemedes to DaVinci to Edison to Ford, technologists are always captured to serve the interests of those in power. Most modern technologists don't want to believe this. They grew up building an Internet that had a bit of countercultural flair to it and undermined a few subsets of entrenched elites (mass media, taxi cartels, etc.), so they convin…

It made sense to ponder given HN attracts people with the hacker mindset (the drive of curiosity to understand how things work and how to improve them, not merely accepting the status quo as gospel like the dry monkeys) and frustration is a good signal that something could be improved.

whats a dry monkey

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#159

Post by visarga »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #124
EGreg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gearing up for a fight between the two major industries based on exploitative business models: Copyright cartels (RIAA, MPAA) that monetized young artists without paying them much at all [1], vs the AI megalomaniacs who took all the work for free and used Kenyans at $2 an hour [2] so that they can raise "$7 trillion" for their AI infrastructure [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/LetsTalkMusic/comments/1fzyr0u/arti... [2] h…

Can't believe I'm actually rooting for the copyright cartels in this fight. But that does make me think, that in a sane society with a functional legislature I wouldn't have to pick a dog in this fight. I'd have have enough faith in lawmakers and the political process to pursue a path towards copyright reform that reigns in abuses from both AI companies and megacorp rightsholders Alas, for now I'm hoping that aforeme…

> Can't believe I'm actually rooting for the copyright cartels in this fight.

The same megacorps are suing Internet Archive for their collection of 78rpm records. These guys would rather see art orphaned and die.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#160

Post by nickpsecurity »

triceratops wrote: post #36
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already applies to real people, doesn't it? I.e. if you read a book, you're not allowed to start printing and selling copies of that book without permission of the copyright owner, but if you learn something from that book you can use that knowledge, just like a model could.

Can I download a book without paying for it, and print copies of it? Stash copies in my bathroom, the gym, my office, my bedroom etc. to basically have a copy on hand to study from whenever I have some free time? What about movies and music?

To support your point, lawsuits are already coming in for illegal copying of books:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224450/anthropic-copyri...

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/google-sued-by-top-...

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