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Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

forum.cursor.com

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Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#311

Post by oooyay »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #110
andai wrote: post #102

This isn’t just about individual laziness—it’s a systemic arms race towards intellectual decay.[0] With programming, the same basic tension exists as with the more effective smarter AI-enhanced approaches to conceptual learning: effectiveness is a function of effort, and the whole reason for the "AI epidemic" is that people are avoiding effort like the plague. So the problem seems to boil down to, how can we convince…

> With programming, the same basic tension exists as with the more effective smarter AI-enhanced approaches to conceptual learning: effectiveness is a function of effort, and the whole reason for the "AI epidemic" is that people are avoiding effort like the plague. That's not true. Yes, you can get more effective at something with more effort, but you can get even more effective at it if you find a way to get results…

> Yes, you can get more effective at something with more effort, but you can get even more effective at it if you find a way to get results without actually doing the work yourself in the first place.

You've arrived at the reason for compilers. You could go produce all that pesky machine code yourself or you could learn to use the compiler to its optimal potential to do the work for you.

LLMs and smart machines alike will be the same concept but potentially capable of a wider variety of tasks. Engineers that know how to wield them and check their work will see their productivity increase as the technology gets better. Engineers that don't know how to check their work or wield them will at worst get less done or produce volumes of garbage work.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#312

Post by aleph_minus_one »

croes wrote: post #280
motorest wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's going to be interesting to see the AI generation arriving in the workplace, ie kids who grew up with ChatGPT, and have never learned to find something in a source document themselves. I am from the generation whose only options on the table were RTFM and/or read the source code. Your blend of comment was also directed at the likes of Google and StackOverflow. Apparently SO is not a problem anymore, but chatbot…

SO and Google are still a problem especially they are one of the sources of LLMs. So now we can get wrong code but written in a more confident language. If you are lucky it’s a hallucination and the error is obvious.

> So now we can get wrong code but written in a more confident language.

The lesson to learn is rather that also in "real life", you shouldn't trust confident people.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#313

Post by sim7c00 »

disclaimer: not a programmer for a living.

I asked specifically the AI i interact with not to generate code or give code examples, but to highlight topics i need to better my understanding in to answer my own questions. I think it enhances my personal competences better that way, which i value above 'productivity'. As i learn more, i do become more efficient and productive.

Some of the recommendations it comes with are hard programming skills, others are project management oriented.

I think this is a better approach personally to use this kind of technology as it guides me to better my hard and soft skills. long term gains over short term gains.

Then again, i am under no pressure or obligation to be productive in my programming. I can happily spend years to come up with a good solution to a problem, rather than having a deadline which forces to cut as many corners as possible.

I do think that this is how it should be in professional settings, but respect a company doesn't always have the resources (time mostly) to allow for it. Its sad but true.

Perhaps someday, AIs will be far enough to solve problems properly, and think of the aspects of a problem the person sending the question has not. AIs can generate quite nice code, but only as good as the question asked.

If the requester doesn't spend time to learn enough, they can never get an AI to generate good code. It will give what you ask for, warts and all!

I did spend some time trying to get AI to generate code for me. To me, it only highlighted the deficiencies in my own knowledge and ability to properly formulate the solution I needed. If i take the time to learn what is needed to formulate the solution fully, i can write the code to implement it myself, so the AI just becomes an augment to my typing speed, nothing else. This last part, is why i beleive it's better to have it guide my growth and learning, rather than produce something in the form of an actual solution (in code or algorithmically).

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#314

Post by aleph_minus_one »

khaledh wrote: post #182

Some time circa late 1950s, a coder is given a problem and a compiler to solve it. The coder writes their solution in a high level language and asks the compiler to generate the assembly code from it. The compiler: I cannot generate the assembly code for you, that would be completing your work ... /sarcasm On a more serious note: LLMs now are an early technology, much like the early compilers who many programmers did…

> The productivity gained from using a HLL vs. assembly was worth it.

You can be very productive in a good assembler (for example RollerCoaster Tycoon and RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 were written basically solo by Chris Sawyer in x86 assembler). The reason was rather that over the generations, the knowledge of writing code in assembly decayed because it got used less and less.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#315

Post by dartos »

andai wrote: post #102

This isn’t just about individual laziness—it’s a systemic arms race towards intellectual decay.[0] With programming, the same basic tension exists as with the more effective smarter AI-enhanced approaches to conceptual learning: effectiveness is a function of effort, and the whole reason for the "AI epidemic" is that people are avoiding effort like the plague. So the problem seems to boil down to, how can we convince…

> instinct to take the path of least resistance.

It’s least resistance initially, but much harder in the long run.

It’s like the children with marshmallows experiment.

Give a kid a marshmallow and tell them if they don’t eat it for 20min, they’ll get 2 more.

Some kids will eat it right away and some will wait.

We’re just seeing that play out for adults.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#316

Post by dartos »

c-linkage wrote: post #216
TeMPOraL wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, the closest parallel for #2 I can think of us plagiarism in an academic setting. You didn't do the work, which means you didn't actually learn the material, which means this isn't actually progress (assuming we continue to value #2 (...) Plagiarism is a great analogy. It's great because what we call plagiarism in academic setting, in the real world work we call collaboration, cooperation, standing on the s…

The CTO asked the CEO what happens if we train these people and they decide to leave? The CEO asked in reply what happens if we don't train the people and they decide to stay? Any reasonably smart company will invest in its employees. They should absolutely be training you to be better programmers while you are on the job. Only shit companies would refuse to do so.

> The CEO asked in reply what happens if we don't train the people and they decide to stay?

Then they both chuckle and say they’ll hire some other schmuck, it doesn’t matter bc they already got series A funding.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#317

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

brulard wrote: post #159
4ndrewl wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your cognitive abilities to do programming may cognitively decline, but that's not the aim here is it? The aim is to solve a problem for a user, not to write code? If we solve that using different tools maybe our cognitive abilities will just focus on something else?

Exactly. If there is a tool that can do a lot of the low level work for us, we are free to do more of the higher level tasks and have higher output overall. Programming should be just a means to an end, not the end itself.

Or, more likely, most of us will be much lower paid or simply out of a job as our former customers input their desires into the AI themselves and it spits out what they want.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#318

Post by ahnick »

looofooo0 wrote: post #249
jeandesuis wrote: post #164

Sheesh, I didn't expect my post to go viral. Little explanation: I downloaded and run Cursor for the first time when this "error" happened. Turned out I was supposed to use agent instead of inline Cmd+K command because inline has some limitations while agent not so much. Nevertheless, I was surprised that AI could actually say something like that so just in case I screenshotted it - some might think it's fake, but it…

Have you tried to be more rude to do stuff or manipulate it by stating it is easy.

Haha, gaslighting AI to do get it to comply. That would be hilarious if that actually works.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#319

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

c-linkage wrote: post #216
TeMPOraL wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, the closest parallel for #2 I can think of us plagiarism in an academic setting. You didn't do the work, which means you didn't actually learn the material, which means this isn't actually progress (assuming we continue to value #2 (...) Plagiarism is a great analogy. It's great because what we call plagiarism in academic setting, in the real world work we call collaboration, cooperation, standing on the s…

The CTO asked the CEO what happens if we train these people and they decide to leave? The CEO asked in reply what happens if we don't train the people and they decide to stay? Any reasonably smart company will invest in its employees. They should absolutely be training you to be better programmers while you are on the job. Only shit companies would refuse to do so.

> Any reasonably smart company will invest in its employees. They should absolutely be training you to be better programmers while you are on the job. Only shit companies would refuse to do so.

The latter represents a mindset that's prevalent at a large portion of companies. Most companies aren't FANNGS or AAA Game Studios (w/e) looking for the best of the best, most companies are outsourcing a large portion of work and/or are speeding to the bottom of the quality race. Many aren't even in any position to judge competence, nurture it, or reward it.

They just want "5 years experience" in whatever Cloud crap and Java thing.

Re: Cursor told me I should learn coding instead of asking it to generate it

#320

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #183
TeMPOraL wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, the closest parallel for #2 I can think of us plagiarism in an academic setting. You didn't do the work, which means you didn't actually learn the material, which means this isn't actually progress (assuming we continue to value #2 (...) Plagiarism is a great analogy. It's great because what we call plagiarism in academic setting, in the real world work we call collaboration, cooperation, standing on the s…

>most software is throwaway That's only webdev and games.

Which games? I'd argue this isn't true for AAA games, where you see major firms milking the big releases for a decade in some cases--3 versions of the Last of Us, GTA V just had a "enhanced" patch thing on PC etc.
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