Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 257 posts

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#161

Post by apercu »

apercu wrote: post #118
bloomingeek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have English relatives, my son-in-laws family, lovely people. They want to come visit again, but are concerned about the craziness of the current administration. When they visit, they spend plenty of money and have a great time. Does the GOP think tourists from other countries aren't paying attention?!?

>"Does the GOP think"

uh oh, must have insulted "critical thinking doge fans".

While I acknowledge my tongue in cheek quote is not on brand for HN, and the GOP has demonstrated a long term, 40-year strategy of embracing ancient middle eastern value systems to co-op US government, that does not mean the current crop of leaders are deep thinkers.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#162

Post by wat10000 »

caseyy wrote: post #153
wat10000 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A full work week in jail for something that isn’t even a crime is ridiculous.

It’s not strictly a crime, but immigration/visa fraud is a “removable offence”. It is the law that a person committing it will be removed. Sometimes immediate removal is not possible and these people must be detained and housed. This is not all that ridiculous. What would be ridiculous is if people who have in the past, or would have by the virtue of entering into a country, committed immigration fraud were let in. O…

This is about the same level of lawbreaking as slightly exceeding the speed limit. I have no problem with removing them. Jailing them for days first is ridiculous. Imagine if you got pulled over for speeding and they stuck you in jail for days until they could be bothered to find you a ride home.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#163

Post by wat10000 »

mingus88 wrote: post #137
wat10000 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A full work week in jail for something that isn’t even a crime is ridiculous.

If she was staying in Portland with a family doing chores (aka work) in exchange for housing (aka compensation) then I’m pretty sure that’s illegal. Add to this the 4mo trip on a 90 day tourist visa and I would expect nothing less than detention since they can’t exactly turn her around since CA already turned her away

“Illegal” and “a crime” are not synonymous. Immigration violations are mostly civil infractions, similar to jaywalking and low-level speeding offenses.

Among other things, this means that you don’t get a public defender if you can’t afford a lawyer for your immigration case.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#164

Post by wat10000 »

necovek wrote: post #129
wat10000 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A full work week in jail for something that isn’t even a crime is ridiculous.

Going to a country for work on a tourist visa (waiver) and without a working permit is ridiculous on top of staying longer than the usually allowed 90 days in any sequence of 180 consecutive days. Do not put yourself in a position for a foreign government to put you in detention and "hope for the best".

Agreed. But I care a lot more about what my government does to people who break the rules than I care about people breaking minor rules.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#165

Post by jonnybgood »

kennysoona wrote: post #157
necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

> Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous.

Should they have put her on house arrest in a hotel room? She doesn't deserve special privileges. A huge swath of the US population would be adamantly against her being treated special.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#166

Post by cthulha »

decimalenough wrote: post #14

If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforci…

You used to be able (specific countries only) get an automatic visa on entry.

There were people active in the San Francisco startup scene from multiple countries who would go for a 'holiday' nearby (mexico, canada, etc) for a week every 2-3 months and then get a new 3 month visa on re-entry. One of them told me that after almost two years of that he started getting tougher conversations at re-entry, but was still allowed through.

This is from 2010ish, so maybe things have changed. But it certainly isn't possible to just assume that she broke the rules from that description, because it hinges on extremely technical reading of multiple overlapping legislation and regulation.

Side note on people trying to reason outside their field of knowledge: any American who has never had to deal with visas for incoming people has a useless opinion. The US media on this is hyperpolitical garbage and grievance politics. Not particularly directed at the original poster, just a request to so many indulged Americans who feel informed and entitled on this topic while they are demonstrably wrong.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#167

Post by gruez »

cpncrunch wrote: post #160
decimalenough wrote: post #14

If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforci…

There is no mention of her using the visa waiver program. In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months).

>In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months).

No, if you read the article carefully it never stated that she had a tourist visa at all. Only that she was told "she should have applied for a working visa, instead of a tourist visa". That's not the same as her possessing a tourist visa. Moreover a "tourist visa" (of 6 months) isn't something you can apply for at the border. If she just showed up at the border, then by all likelihood she's getting in via the Visa Waiver Program, which has a 90 day limit.

So it sounds like what happened was that she drove across the US border from Canada, tried getting in using the Visa Waiver Program, the border guards grilled her, she cracked under pressure (ie. admitted she was going to do stuff inconsistent with the Visa Waiver Program), and they tried to deport her back to Canada. However, Canada doesn't want to take her back so she's stuck in limbo.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#168

Post by necovek »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #155
necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

So do you support invalidating the citizenship of Elon Musk and Melania Trump because they both worked without authorization while on student and tourist visas?

You misinterpret me for someone in support of aggressive immigration policies: I am more in favour of EU-style globally open borders.

But the law should either be applied to everyone equally, or overturned to not be applied at all. "Equally" does not mean you do not account for each individual case's specifics — I was responding to a comment saying there was a "right and wrong way" to apply a law (if it's applied the "wrong way", then law is not applied at all).

I am in favour of abolishing any detention for "illegal immigrants" who agree to voluntary deportation.

Also note that I am not a US citizen, so this is just personal opinion.

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#169

Post by necovek »

kennysoona wrote: post #157
necovek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one way to enforce the law, which is to enforce it upon learning of all the circumstances, both in favour and not in favour of the accused. The fact that you are not familiar with the law never protects you by design ("oh sorry, I never realised I wasn't allowed to just take their bike and ride away") — so it's upon the courts to make judgement on the entire set of circumstances. The problem with any im…

All people involved have jurisdiction on how to apply the law. Putting this girl in prison and a jumpsuit is ridiculous. It creates yet another person who will come to rightfully hate the US, gets bad press affecting tourism and business, and for what? For a girl that loved the US, misinterpreted or misunderstood something and is staying a little longer, spending more money and having good experiences. Enforce the la…

I agree that the conditions are far from ideal, but if that's how US generally deals with people waiting for their court dates, it's what it is.

This does not mean US should not work to improve those conditions for everyone — I don't see a difference between a Mexican person overstaying or her overstaying from the angle of immigration clerks — it should! US should also certainly adapt laws to avoid any "detention" for people open to "voluntary deportation".

In my non-EU European country, arbitrary application of laws is exactly what's the issue. This leads to rampant corruption and society going crazy (it's not about being a good citizen, it's about not getting caught being a bad one).

Re: British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

#170

Post by cpncrunch »

gruez wrote: post #167
cpncrunch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no mention of her using the visa waiver program. In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months).

>In fact it talks about her "tourist visa" (which allows up to 6 months). No, if you read the article carefully it never stated that she had a tourist visa at all. Only that she was told "she should have applied for a working visa, instead of a tourist visa". That's not the same as her possessing a tourist visa. Moreover a "tourist visa" (of 6 months) isn't something you can apply for at the border. If she just showe…

The article is annoying unclear on the issue of what visa she had, but you're probably right.
Post reply on HN