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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

191–200 of 287 posts

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#191

From a company that sell "full self-driving" cars that don't, you now, "self drive fully", I was kinda already expecting that whatever advertised range was, to put it nicely, a "large exageration". The bit of code in the dashboard to exaggerate even more is a nice touch. I wonder what the commit message was for that PR ? (Or maybe Tesla does not do PRs or commits, and just let anyone build anything on their laptop an…

There was a time where false advertising used to be illegal.

I suppose that would violate the advertiser's "free speech".

It's very ironic that everyone is so afraid of Orwellian's "Ministry of Truth", and that we end in a world ruled by "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistical parrots, Inc."

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#192
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you understand how the EPA actually test this, it makes sense. "Highway" isn't anything like what most people think it is. It's not cruising at 75mph with no traffic on a major interstate. It's more like busy country road driving. > The "highway" program, on the other hand, is created to emulate rural and interstate freeway driving with a warmed-up engine, making no stops (both of which ensure maximum fuel econo…

> force of drag grows exponentially with speed No, it grows only polynomially [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

More specifically, it grows quadratically.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#193
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also own an EV. Mine is a Seik MG4 (long range) - a Chinese beastie with an old school British marque slapped on it. I went to school in Abingdon, Oxon, which is where the Morris Garage comes from. My car didn't! There is a standard for range - WLTP - does the US subscribe to it? The W stands for Worldwide. My car has a WLTP range of 323 miles. I've managed better than that. The standard itself is pretty decent and…

Oh and I should probably ask how you felt when you first floored the pedal on your Tesla and realised it was sodding dangerous! EVs have ferocious acceleration - no gears and no need to "wind up". I used to own a Honda S2000 which was pretty funky - it could lift off in sixth gear and run up to around 150mph. EVs basically destroy ICEs - no gear box. I did rather enjoy the S2000 when it hit 6500 rpm and then it decid…

Tbh an S2000 nowadays is somewhat slow. Fun and cool but not quick. Electrics do stupid good launches 0-30 but past that you're just comparing a brand new likely 4-500hp car to a very peaky, old, 240hp car.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#194
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave…

My Y has been parked at an airport garage for two weeks. It has lost 1% in that time.

My M3 was parked for 3 months and went from 80% to 60% which I'm perfectly happy with. Just arrived home, got back in it and drove. It was on WiFi, no sentry, and checked in on it only every 3 weeks or so.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#195

From a company that sell "full self-driving" cars that don't, you now, "self drive fully", I was kinda already expecting that whatever advertised range was, to put it nicely, a "large exageration". The bit of code in the dashboard to exaggerate even more is a nice touch. I wonder what the commit message was for that PR ? (Or maybe Tesla does not do PRs or commits, and just let anyone build anything on their laptop an…

> I wonder what the commit message was for that PR? They "trust me". Dumb fucks.

Vouching and upvoting this. In case the context got lost by the original downvoters, this is in reference to Mark Zuckerberg's leaked conversations about creating Facebook [0]. I wouldn't be surprised if (some) Tesla employees/executives indeed internally hold a similar sentiment about their customers.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/17/facebook-...

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#196
post #76
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving style and speed also factor into it. My car doesn't get anything near the advertised mileage but that's because of speed and driving style. I'm thrilled with it. On long road trips I fill (charge) to about 1.5X my expected driving mileage, and don't have any problems. If, however, I was worried about the number, I would drive a different car… but then life would be no fun.

I hear you, but during my testing I’ve been driving like a grandma , and I usually drive tame enough to exceed Gas EPA estimates by 15%, so I was really shocked to have terrible EV range. In my 270 mile test I was under 60 for 85% of the trip, and never over 75

270, wow. You could just ignore the estimate number, or go back to gas. My “tests” haha are more like 2,500 - 3,500 miles with almost ten of these under my belt and I’m a happy camper, and I don’t have to go slow but then I chose the brand with the good charging network, and I follow my formula and I own (and embrace) the extra burning of range because it’s my choice to drive hard.

Aerodynamic drag increases with the cube of speed, so if you are even a smidgen over 50 mph average, just own it.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#197
post #86

Having road tripped from Florida to Washington and back in a big circle around the country, it is my firm belief that every single person complaining about the range estimates in a Tesla is speeding. By altering my driving style, I can get more range than the estimate. It's extremely predictable and accurate, to the point where I can notice the power drain from the self driving computers/cameras, arrive at the next s…

It's a valid point. The drag doesn't go up linearly as you accelerate but exponentially. So driving 5, 10, or 20 miles per hour faster at highway speeds has a huge impact. Your speed goes up by a few percent but the drag goes up a lot more. Also nice to keep in mind if you are driving a petrol car. Because the difference comes out of your pocket and the physics works the same way.

The estimate the car gives you adjusts to what you are actually doing. So if you drive uphill very quickly (which is tempting because of all that wonderful torque you have), that number will get very low quickly. If you drive a really heavy car, physics dictates that you will use up a lot of kwh. The estimate will recover a bit if you level off for the remaining kwh. And you might even get a few kwh back if you go downhill via regenerative braking. But not all of it. It's probably merely reducing the number of kwh you lose rather than adding a lot back.

A more useful metric than range is miles per kwh at different speeds or under different conditions. The amount of kwh your battery has is a constant; but miles you get per kwh will vary depending on what you are doing. Teslas are normally around 3.5-4 miles per kwh on highways, which is pretty good for cars that size. But of course it matters how fast you are going. That puts them around the 200-250 miles range many people are reportedly getting; if you account for battery degradation, temperature, etc. and assume a 65kwh battery. Some recent cars are getting a lot of gains from improved aerodynamics and battery management. E.g. Kia is doing some great stuff on that front.

Also having less battery actually improves the miles per kwh number because there's less mass to drag around. Shoving 200kwh in a big truck makes it really heavy and combined with poor aerodynamics probably would make for less than stellar range than you might hope for. Probably you're getting less than 2 miles per kwh. So, more than triple the battery but nowhere near triple the range. And it makes the truck really expensive too. And you'll have to buy a lot more kwh to go the same distance.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time where false advertising used to be illegal.

I suppose that would violate the advertiser's "free speech". It's very ironic that everyone is so afraid of Orwellian's "Ministry of Truth", and that we end in a world ruled by "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistical parrots, Inc."

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time where false advertising used to be illegal.

I suppose that would violate the advertiser's "free speech". It's very ironic that everyone is so afraid of Orwellian's "Ministry of Truth", and that we end in a world ruled by "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistical parrots, Inc."

The "Ministry of Truth" in this case is a bad analogy though, since in the story, its purpose was to redefine what is the truth according to state up to the point of forcing people ignore the proof that they see in front of their eyes through torture.
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