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1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

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Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#51

Post by Tloewald »

joering2 wrote: post #39
pantaloons wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main point is that it is decentralized and (ostensibly, with enough care) anonymous. This makes it ideal for illegal transactions (drugs, gambling, weapons, contract killing, child pornography). These being incredibly inelastic goods, price fluctuations will do little to hamper continued growth of the Bitcoin.

I dont buy it just like Feds apparently dont buy it either (yet); otherwise they would be already shutting it down. While bitcoins can be used for illegal transactions, it does not mean (and never will) that 99% of transactions will be illegal, just like Feds won't shut down knife factory because some knifes were used to kill. At the end, paying for something illegal is not illegal on its own; its the act or good you…

Forging currency is illegal even though all of the components and component activities are legal. (Paper, ink, printing, lithography.) The Feds (or any government) can shut down anything they like given the right legislation. Anything that allows end runs around currency restrictions and taxes is fair game for governments, and passing laws against it (or simpy extending existing laws) wouldn't even be unconstitutional in the US.

Did you declare all your bitcoin transactions to the IRS? You may already be in trouble...

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#52

Post by davidklemke »

This is exactly the last thing BitCoin needs to be successful as a currency. After the speculative bubble last year it started to make some headway as the price remained relatively stable. Now in the past 2 weeks we've seen its value appreciate by 50%, something that just doesn't happen with traditional currencies. It's dangerously reminiscent of what happened last year and shows that the BitCoin economy is still very susceptible to manipulation.

If it was just organic growth in the currency I wouldn't say there was an issue but if you look at the transaction volume it's clear that the surge in trading that occurred both a week ago and just recently is what is responsible for the latest increases in value. I don't have enough evidence to say that the price has been deliberately manipulated upwards, and indeed the increase could just be a reflection of the higher demand, but it does call into question how stable BitCoin can be.

I'm not an advocate against BitCoin, far from it, but I honestly believe that a highly valued BitCoin is the worst thing it can have as a fluctuating value doesn't benefit users of the currency. The only people who benefit from a high price are the speculators and investors, those who are at odds with BitCoin being a proper currency.

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#53

Post by sgornick »

sylvinus wrote: post #27

Am I the only one to think Bitcoin is just a big Ponzi scheme benefiting the first users/creators who got all the first ones?

Tell that to the people who bought at $15 or $32 even.

The thing is, the first users didn't get all the first ones.

Bitcoin was in Slashdot more than two years ago. It is open source, anyone could download the software and mine on their CPU.

Mt. Gox has been open for even longer. Anyone, anywhere in the world could and still can buy on the exchanges. There's no members-only trading.

If you bought after Slashdot you would have paid around a dime or less. But Slashdot readers called it a ponzi scam and didn't take it seriously.

You could have bought thousands of bitcoins at a dollar when Steve Gibson talked about it in February 2011. But Leo poo-pooh'd it "Not government issued" he balked.

Then again, you could have bought bitcoins at $30 after the July 2011 bubble, and today be down by 66% yet and still be bitter.

That's the nature of speculation. Nobody knows if bitcoin will increase or decrease in value. But it definitely isn't a ponzi. Ponzi means paying dividends to early investors, using funds from later investors. Everyone who held bitcoins yesterday when they were $9.20 could have sold today at $11. Everyone, not just the early miners.

Today, just like a year ago, mining will generate bitcoins at a little more than the cost of electricity to generate them. If you want bitcoins, then mine, buy, or stand on the sidelines.

Just don't bitch when it hits $100.

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#54

Post by Steko »

streptomycin wrote: post #19
taligent wrote: post #14

I really don't get Bitcoin. What is the point in a currency that ranges from $2 USD to $12 USD in a year ?

Commission-free electronic transactions with anyone in the world?

That's rich, commissions are built into it so that if it's ever successful transaction fees will come in and grow over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

"The network never creates more than 50 BTC per block and this amount will decrease over time towards zero, such that no more than 21 million will ever exist.[15] As this payout decreases, the incentive for users to run block-generating nodes is intended to change to earning transaction fees."

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#55

Post by WhoIsSatoshi »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #36
btdd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN SAYING? Who are you to make a claim as to if it will last or if it won't or how valuable bitcoins are. >This won't last We have no evidence to the contrary, and in fact, bitcoin being a deflationary currency by definition means it will likely increase in value and, what's more, if you look at the trend it has been increasing in value. If you were to use a single shred of logic th…

> " bitcoin being a deflationary currency by definition means it will likely increase in value" Why would yo want a deflationary currency? This promotes people "holding" onto the money with the hopes of getting a better deal in the future. ie. Why buy that $50 USD item for 5 BTC, when at the current rate it might be worth 4.5 BTC by next month? This is a burden on a currency and commerce.

This is a burden only if you do not use it. but the same applies to any investment - why invest at all? Bitcoins are capped by protocol - Quoting DeathAndTaxes @ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80185.0:

(quote) The method used for determining the reward is to do a right shift on 50,000,000 satoshis every 210K blocks. That truncates any fractional satoshis. There are some truncation along the way. For example starting in block 6,090,000 the reward is 9 satoshis. In block 6,300,000 it becomes 4 satoshis so the block reward declines by more than 50%. Block 6,930,000 will drop the reward to 0 satoshis however only 2,099,999,997,690,000 so it looks like we will be eternally 2,310,000 satoshis (0.0231 BTC) short of the magical 21M. If Satoshi had wanted it to be an even number the starting block reward should have been a multiple of 2. For example is the first block reward had been 2^32 satoshis (~42.94 BTC) then we would have had 32 perfect halvings of the reward. 2^32 down to 2^0. A bit of trivia, the "21M" appears nowhere in the code. The entire subsidy calculation is just a handful of lines. (endquote)

Following this principle, eventually you will want to use them, particularly when others Fiat currencies go away - this is but a transition period for the next 30-50 years. The fact that there is an economy (mostly underground) that makes use of the currency as what it is meant to be (anonymous / uncontrollable / as a way to establish a trading baseline) just makes it stronger as tool for the people. As to this being another bitcoin bubble, definitely. But look at the 4 yr graph and you can see that bitcoins are seeing constant positive growth if you ignore the speculative bubbles. (Disc: I own & am long Bitcoin)

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#56

Post by nullymcnull »

Retric wrote: post #47
lmm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could they shut it down? By making maths illegal? There'd be no point in a bill that outlawed bitcoin specifically, users would just move on to something equivalent. That doesn't mean it isn't 99% illegal activity, just like e.g. Freenet.

They could easily kill bit-coin, and having made bit-coins worthless people would have far less interest using the next currency.

Like joering, you have failed to specify how the government will magically kill bitcoin.

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#57

Post by Dylan16807 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #42
Jach wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also increasing at a controlled rate. To make your analogy more complete, it'd be like all the diggers are aware of each other and whether they've found a USD or not. If too many are being found at once, everyone switches to using their hands. If still too many are found, everyone uses their tongues. If too few are being found, shovels are allowed. If still too few are being found, backhoes are allowed.

Can you give this analogous type summary of how this works from a technical perspective? I assume it doesn't rely on everyone coming to some sort of an agreement?

It does actually rely on agreement. Clients track the network speed and only accept difficult enough hashes.

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#59

Post by Alex3917 »

davidklemke wrote: post #52

This is exactly the last thing BitCoin needs to be successful as a currency. After the speculative bubble last year it started to make some headway as the price remained relatively stable. Now in the past 2 weeks we've seen its value appreciate by 50%, something that just doesn't happen with traditional currencies. It's dangerously reminiscent of what happened last year and shows that the BitCoin economy is still ver…

"Now in the past 2 weeks we've seen its value appreciate by 50%"

Wouldn't surprise me if it crashes again after Burning Man.

Re: 1 Bitcoin Worth 10 USD

#60

Post by pixie_ »

sylvinus wrote: post #27

Am I the only one to think Bitcoin is just a big Ponzi scheme benefiting the first users/creators who got all the first ones?

Mining gold also benefits the 'first ones.' Over the next 5 years the number of bitcoins mined is going to double, and those coins will be very evenly distributed.
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