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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#851

Post by russfink »

mrweasel wrote: post #175

So in the article, they talk about the AN/ALQ-131 jammer. It needs to be updated by the US, to keep up with the Russia counter measures, that's what's stopping. At least the F-16 donated by Denmark will most likely have pylons from Terma (ECIPS), which should work with the CJS from Leonardo (ECIPS/CJS). Shouldn't be to hard for Europe to make the required pylons for the planes who don't have the ECIPS and for those t…

Yes. The problem seemed to be the lack of continued updates that evolve with the Russian radar changes. This sounds like an anti-virus paradigm: base software plus signature files.

Can’t the Ukrainees (?) reverse engineer the update format and make their own on the down-low?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#853

Post by anabab »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #684
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Not being troll-y or intentionally obtuse but I have to ask: when has The Military Industrial Complex acted in my / our best interest? Sure there’s plenty about US policy and actions that have been normalized, but that doesn’t mean they should have been adopted. It doesn’t mean those things should persist without thought or challenge. Even going about that the wrong way is more productive Yes, The System is fragile (…

> when has The Military Industrial Complex acted in my / our best interest?

[Not a US citizen/resident; never worked in MIC-related area]

a). MIC is an industrial sector creating jobs, doing some R&D (which can trickle down into the civilian sector) and bringing hundreds of billions they do in exports into country; all of those seem benefitial for the overall economy. Of course those can be achieved in non-military-related areas, but so far there was a working machine - and a wrench is already thrown into the gears.

b). The last three years have shown that large-scale wars are still on the table and having a working and oiled MIC is much better than having a degraded one.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#854

Post by toomuchtodo »

willvarfar wrote: post #831
Animats wrote: post #801

Sweden will reportedly be supplying Ukraine with Saab-built Gripen fighters.[1][2] Maybe. Apparently Sweden has been holding off on transfer of 14 Gripens while Ukraine was learning to use and service F-16s. The Gripen has advantages for Ukraine. It's a more rugged aircraft, with lower maintenance demands and lower operating cost. It can operate from very basic airstrips and roads. Saab boasts about this.[3] Their pi…

Various components in the Gripen, particularly the engine which Volvo licensed from GE, are from the US and the US has a veto on them. It is currently blocking sale of Gripen to Colombia, for example.

Are there any other compatible engines for the platform?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#855

Post by arkensaw »

whymeogod wrote: post #828
guerrilla wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. What's with the US approach then? In general, it seems like lean forces tend to win. Afghanistan (twice) and Vietnam, for example. The Houthis as another example.

I thought the US lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Am I misunderstanding something in your post?

Yes I think you are misunderstanding. The leaner forces in all of the cases above are not the US, but the opposition.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#856

Post by bambax »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #766
addicted wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

I think the administration is gambling on being able to consolidate global power before anyone is going to have a chance to build anything. Europe is completely reliant on the US and US technology for defense right now, these systems took decades and trillions of dollars to build and refine, and an 800 billion EUR investment does not magically create a military industrial complex overnight. Decades ago in my early ca…

Yes the US may have a second civil war coming. The good guys won the last one; they should win this one too, but it may take some time. In the end though they should go for a "reconciliation"; MAGA will show no mercy -- the good guys shouldn't either.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#857

Post by CapricornNoble »

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

> This means that no country will want to buy F16s.

This is just HNers being late to the party.

Back in the 1990s, the US blocked sale of F-16s to Indonesia due to human rights concerns (eventually worked out).[0] Thailand has F-16s but more recently switched procurement to Swedish Gripens, partly to avoid reliance on a single combat aircraft supplier. Thailand also does bilateral training with PLAAF (Chinese Air Force), and their F-16s are apparently barred from participating. [1] There are rumors Egypt is switching from F-16s to Chinese J-10s, largely because the US refuses to sell Egypt modernizations and air-to-air missiles that would make them competitive against the Israeli Air Force.[2] The move away from the US as a combat aircraft supplier has been building steam for decades now. In the past there simply weren't many options competitive with the F-16 (both affordable and capable), but that's not the case in 2025.

> This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it.

I guess this really is the question: what is the expected overall quality of life for the average American when our continent-sized economy is largely functioning under conditions of autarky? The US's imports and exports are lower in 2023 than they were in 1913. Even in 1913 the US had the world's largest GDP (but not GDP/capita, was still much lower than the UK's at the time).

[0] https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA441694.pdf

[1] https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3279377/why-t...

[2] https://fmso.tradoc.army.mil/2024/egypt-is-rumored-to-have-s...

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#858

Post by graeme »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #854
willvarfar wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various components in the Gripen, particularly the engine which Volvo licensed from GE, are from the US and the US has a veto on them. It is currently blocking sale of Gripen to Colombia, for example.

Are there any other compatible engines for the platform?

None at present to my knowledge. The French Rafale is the only western jet fighter without any US components.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#859

Post by drysine »

bad_user wrote: post #688
drysine wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the first time it happens. For example, in 2006 the US stopped supplying spare parts to F-16s it sold to Venezuela.[0] Oddly, other countries kept buying F-16s. Or think about Boeing and Airbus stopping servicing the planes they sold to Russia. Other countries are still buying from them as if nothing happened. [0] https://www.foxnews.com/story/venezuela-threatens-to-sell-f-...

The difference is that now European countries, and other (former?) US allies are starting to see the US as a threat. With people like Trump in power, the chance of a military conflict between the EU and the US is now non-zero, so what's on everyone's mind going forward will be independence from US tech. Maybe you haven't seen European news and commentary. US's republicans still don't grasp what a diplomatic mess Trum…

>Maybe you haven't seen European news and commentary.

No, I haven't. Could you suggest something to read or to watch?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#860

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

af78 wrote: post #70
sras-me wrote: post #50

[flagged]

This is russian propaganda and it is important to know what it says, to be able to recognize it when you see it elsewhere, from the mouth of an influencer, a politician, a comment on the Web etc.

All you’re doing is taking facts and logic that hurts your side and trying to dismiss it with the shallow label of “Russian propaganda”. It’s not actually a response to GP, and it’s not a response to the arguments within his comment and the sources either.
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