Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#681

Post by bigyabai »

jpadkins wrote: post #655
Waterluvian wrote: post #216

I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.…

[flagged]

> What alliance did the US sign with Ukraine?

Memorandum on Security Assurances in connection with Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

> The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Which was negotiated as part of a package to prevent nuclear proliferation being required to provide security assurances. America's treatment of Ukraine will be remembered when diplomatic disarmament is proposed to North Korea and Iran.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#682

Post by outer_web »

ratatoskrt wrote: post #57
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #39

I genuinely wish there was an understandable endgame for the USA. The USA seems to be throwing its weight around but I’m not entirely sure to what end. This headline/article is just one area where the US is behaving perplexingly. I understand that Trump wants Zelenskyy to sign the minerals deal and that implicitly there’s security guarantees. Fine there’s at least a through line. However; by demonstrating that the US…

I think it boils down to the fact that Trump does not understand soft power. Slashing the most powerful and influential aid programme in the world shows that very clearly. The US is as rich as it is because they created an environment of stability (at least on their own territory) and ensuring that there are markets American companies can sell into.

Maybe not so much that as he sees everything as a bargaining chip and any unused chips as a waste. After all, bribery and favors are more or less what soft power is.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#683

Post by d4vlx »

galleywest200 wrote: post #374
lucasyvas wrote: post #315

I find some of the comments I’ve read today in this thread somewhat enlightening - there is intelligent conversation about the capabilities of the American hardware and its software. The sophistication of the F-35 cannot be debated. But the rest of the world doesn’t trust the US anymore, so it doesn’t matter how good it is - people would gladly explore a worse product because they see it as lower risk. That’s the rea…

>and its superiority is front and center. The vast majority of the comments I am reading on this site are not stating this. The vast majority, even the Americans, are agreeing that this is a bad decision. Unsure where you got this from.

I think he is referring to the F-35 only here. On military discussion forums it is the consensus that the F-35 is superior to everything else out there with the only exception being that the F-22 has superior air to air combat capabilities.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#684

Post by chiefalchemist »

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Not being troll-y or intentionally obtuse but I have to ask: when has The Military Industrial Complex acted in my / our best interest?

Sure there’s plenty about US policy and actions that have been normalized, but that doesn’t mean they should have been adopted. It doesn’t mean those things should persist without thought or challenge. Even going about that the wrong way is more productive

Yes, The System is fragile (as opposed to antifragile). But then let’s discuss that, not insist on the persistence of fragile-ness.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#686

Post by vagrantJin »

lucasyvas wrote: post #351
vagrantJin wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This belief is flat out wrong and is completely oblivious to the current geopolitical landscape. US is likely to get sanctioned by its prior allies in the near future and you need to wake up.

[flagged]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#688

Post by bad_user »

drysine wrote: post #658
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

It's not the first time it happens. For example, in 2006 the US stopped supplying spare parts to F-16s it sold to Venezuela.[0] Oddly, other countries kept buying F-16s. Or think about Boeing and Airbus stopping servicing the planes they sold to Russia. Other countries are still buying from them as if nothing happened. [0] https://www.foxnews.com/story/venezuela-threatens-to-sell-f-...

The difference is that now European countries, and other (former?) US allies are starting to see the US as a threat. With people like Trump in power, the chance of a military conflict between the EU and the US is now non-zero, so what's on everyone's mind going forward will be independence from US tech. Maybe you haven't seen European news and commentary.

US's republicans still don't grasp what a diplomatic mess Trump is causing, which will surely affect all trade. Actually, I'm expecting consequences for the entire US tech sector, not just the defence sector.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#689

Post by tim333 »

jpadkins wrote: post #655
Waterluvian wrote: post #216

I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.…

[flagged]

Over 6,000 Ukrainians performed military service in Iraq and Kuwait, as allies of the US. They signed the Budapest Memorandum.

Russia/the USSR has been a main or the main enemy of the US for decades and Ukraine is doing the US a service standing up to them. Why do you think the US even had an $800bn military budget for decades?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#690

Post by ramoz »

blibble wrote: post #604
addicted wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

risk of war going hot aside, the long term effect of this is fantastic for the rest of the world's industries AWS, GCP and Azure looked unbeatable a month ago but today, if you're a government official in the UK, Poland or Germany, would you be recommending AWS as your cloud provider? absolutely not they now have massive geopolitical risks associated with them due to being under the control of the increasingly unstab…

> if you're a government official in the UK, Poland or Germany, would you be recommending AWS as your cloud provider?

They don't. Sovereign cloud in EU has been progressing for a few years now.

Such that some of your mentioned "unbeatable" hyperscalers have already been positioning (e.g. ceasable infrastructure), and some interesting new players on the block. As well as old benefiting from the related market positions: https://www.oracle.com/cloud/eu-sovereign-cloud/

Post reply on HN