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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#581

Post by foobarian »

827a wrote: post #520
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

It always ends up happening how you least expect it, though maybe that expectation is evidence that it was bound to happen via a different road anyway. At the end of the day, the problem isn't really Trump. The American Empire isn't going to end because its only exporting $300B of military might to the world instead of $600B, when no one else on the planet is scratching $50B (I made these numbers up as an illustratio…

I wonder if part of the problem is that we abdicated our information intake to online sources, which for whatever reasons end up driving the divisions (engagement optimization, ads, money interests, etc.).

Where information input before the Internet might have been: 20% newspapers, 50% face-to-face (at the bar, church, work), 10% radio, 20% TV, now it's more like 80% Internet, 10% TV, 10% face-to-face. And it seems to make it a lot easier to grow hateful without the human element.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#582

Post by throwccp »

tim333 wrote: post #534
pydry wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet arms industry experienced a similar boom in the 1980s due to an eye wateringly expensive arms race with America. Spoiler alert: it did not end well for them. Putin is setting another trap.

I'm not sure how this plays out as Putin setting a trap? This is probably going to be a bit expensive for European taxpayers, myself included, but we'll get by. Russia on the other hand may have issues similar to the 80s/90s if we get serious with sanctions on shipping oil.

[dead]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#583

Post by ascorbic »

nxm wrote: post #365
ascorbic wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A week ago Trump killed the western alliance when he made it clear that allies could not rely on the US. This week he has killed the US weapons export business. Not a single country will trust them now. It would be quite an interesting thing to watch if we didn't have to live here.

*They can’t rely on USA and the American tax payer for the defense of their country. Finally some defense spending will have to take place

They can't rely on weapons that they have bought from US defense manufacturers

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#584

Post by atoav »

verandaguy wrote: post #318
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

The myth of how much harm "leftists" can do/are doing in the US is probably what got you all here. It's another McCarthyist boogeyman, and it's not even being sold well -- a lot of the marketing's just outright lies, and people are eating that up.

This is such a wild con, especially looking at the whole thing from Europe. The Us has no significant political left, how on earth are they "behind everything" if they can't even manifest some influence within the Democratic party?

If the left was strong in the US there would have been a contest between Hillary Clinton and an actual left wing contender like Bernie Sanders. Even people like AOC would make a decent centrist candidate in Europe.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#585

Post by rvnx »

addicted wrote: post #578
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

How can any reasonable national leader justify building their military on American systems anymore? Especially now that the U.S. government is also talking about not living up to its NATO obligations. This is not gonna hurt the rest of the world. Defense is where the U.S. exports a lot. So cutting back on U.S. weaponry will only help other nations. The same is true of Tech. Currently the tech industry is global, but…

Even further, the US position is getting tougher.

Now there are new ideas getting pushed (through influencers like Musk): that Ukraine "should be sanctioned", that Ukraine "should give their minerals to the US", that Ukraine "should give up their lands", that Zelensky "should resign" and finally that "US should leave NATO".

With such allies, you don't really need enemies.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#586

Post by [deleted] »

Jerrrrrry wrote: post #521
dashundchen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump/Musk/Republicans have taken the side of a fascist dictator Putin. Every recent move wrt Ukraine has benefitted Russia. Even if it means betraying democratic allies and decades long alliances. It is so shameful and disgusting.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#587

Post by bayindirh »

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

This is one of the peak "move fast, break things" moments for the US. However, people warned about Chesterton's fences for years...

I think we have passed the Rubicon for quite some time. There's no turning back now. The equilibrium will be found in another configuration.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#588

Post by derektank »

sho_hn wrote: post #304
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I think the meta is studying history, and wondering if any slide toward facism has ever been successfully stopped in its tracks without being beaten down in wars. The two sort-of examples in Western history I can think of are Spain after Franco, and the UK in the 1930s. In Spain a monarch's left-shift was perhaps the deciding and surprising variable, and in the UK it was a powerful civil rights movement. The US has n…

Poland is still in the midst of a constitutional crisis caused by the Law and Justice party's attempts to subvert the country's constitutional court. It's only with the formation of Donald Tusk's government in 2023 that Poland has come back from the brink.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#589

Post by wyre »

dtquad wrote: post #554
epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

>I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Most leftist political parties in Scandinavia and the Baltics manages to be be both pro-Palestine, pro-NATO, and pro-Ukraine. They don't seen any contradiction because there aren't any. Why do some American leftists follow this 3rd worldist neo-Maoist thinking t…

I find it mostly with younger people steeped in ideology and dogmatism, that reparations need to be made for a long history of imperialism.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#590

Post by hsuduebc2 »

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

What's truly eroding trust is the voting system. A system that places so much power in a single individual with complete immunity exposes its vulnerabilities-especially in a time when people can be manipulated so effectively. To be honest, I see the lack of justice as the biggest problem. If the highest courts in the U.S. are essentially political institutions, shaped by those in power rather than acting as neutral arbiters of justice, that seems absurd to me. It feels like you can basically do whatever you want. And the lifetime mandate? That's a joke. As a European, I'm sorry for shitting on Europeans. It's far from ideal here, but I'm finally starting to appreciate what we have. Let's hope this would not spread.
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