US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s • Hacker News Board

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#361

Post by signalToNose » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:46 PM UTC

sho_hn wrote: post #304

epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I think the meta is studying history, and wondering if any slide toward facism has ever been successfully stopped in its tracks without being beaten down in wars. The two sort-of examples in Western history I can think of are Spain after Franco, and the UK in the 1930s. In Spain a monarch's left-shift was perhaps the deciding and surprising variable, and in the UK it was a powerful civil rights movement. The US has n…

Polen corrected course slightly in resent time.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#362

Post by epistasis » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:46 PM UTC

yimby2001 wrote: post #336

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

No one is using fighter jets in this war. Why? And everyone (who knows) knows this: The anti-air technology is too good to field a jet. It will just get shot down. so the Jets are now useless. so there’s no point in supporting useless jets. And no country is going to buy useless jets. But go on and make this political and not about some physical reality of our world.

These jets are being used to shoot down the drones that Russia uses to destroy residential homes and civilian infrastructure.

Their loss will be felt both in lives, and in the cold of winter when homes are unheated.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#363

Post by standardUser » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:46 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #297

epistasis wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

It's not being dismantled at all. It's engaged in a sudden retrenchment which has been brought on by years of slow decline. They even say this - Rubio said that we do not live in a unipolar world any more - a comment which attracted weirdly little notice. Biden's approach assumed a unipolar world which did not exist. That's why the Ukraine war, from the American imperialist perspective, backfired. The achilles heel o…

> Biden's approach assumed a unipolar world

Incorrect, Biden treated China as a rival power and pursued an industrial policy based on this view.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#364

Post by knubie » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:46 PM UTC

sorokod wrote: post #158

The Danish air force is likely experiencing a buyers remorse about their batch of F35s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Danish_Air_Force

Yes I'm sure the Danes are wishing they had purchased their fifth generation fighters from China or Russia instead.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#365

Post by nxm » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

ascorbic wrote: post #221

rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

A week ago Trump killed the western alliance when he made it clear that allies could not rely on the US. This week he has killed the US weapons export business. Not a single country will trust them now. It would be quite an interesting thing to watch if we didn't have to live here.

*They can’t rely on USA and the American tax payer for the defense of their country. Finally some defense spending will have to take place

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#366

Post by silvestrov » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

mmcnl wrote: post #134

tw2347288 wrote: post #114

I'm glad that this discussion finally takes place, even though the discussion is of course flagged. You can flag here, but the mainstream press has picked up the issue: "Can the US switch off Europe’s weapons?" https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc... "Such is the concern that debate has turned to whether the US maintains secret so-called kill switches that would immobilise aircraft and weapons…

Whether there is a kill switch or not is somewhat irrelevant. There is a larger than nonzero chance that there is a kill switch, and the US cannot be trusted anymore. So we have to assume there is a kill switch.

Lack of maintenance parts is just a kill switch with a timer.

Jet Fighters need a lot of maintenance, they are not like cars.

So a kill switch in software is not needed. If the US stops shipping parts, then it is only a matter of time before the Jet Fighters is an expensive paper weight.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#367

Post by arrobbiato » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

casenmgreen wrote: post #319

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Taiwan is now going to be seriously worried.

Taiwan should be thrilled. Every indication is that this administration is letting Europe fend for itself so it can focus on the Pacific.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#368

Post by mlyle » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

yimby2001 wrote: post #336

ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

No one is using fighter jets in this war. Why? And everyone (who knows) knows this: The anti-air technology is too good to field a jet. It will just get shot down. so the Jets are now useless. so there’s no point in supporting useless jets. And no country is going to buy useless jets. But go on and make this political and not about some physical reality of our world.

Jets are massively used in this war-- to launch glide bombs and as roving defense against cruise missile threats. Ukraine is mostly doing the latter.

Yes, the amount of direct CAS and amount of direct air to air engagement is low.

Making an argument that "everyone knows" something without a basic effort to inform yourself is not great.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#369

Post by sidewndr46 » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:48 PM UTC

jcgrillo wrote: post #343

jopsen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, not delivering additional aid for free is one thing. But retracting support is the nuclear option. Figuratively, because you can probably one do it once, so you better pick a good reason for doing it. And literally, because small European countries do now have to consider nukes.

> small European countries do now have to consider nukes It wouldn't be all that surprising to see Poland and Finland doing atmospheric tests in the next few months. Given that Ukraine gave up their weapons for a totally vacuous security guarantee it would make sense for them to build bombs too. 2025 could be the year of global nuclear proliferation.

I don't think anyone is dumb enough to restart atmospheric testing. If you want a subsurface test to be public knowledge, there's a pretty good track record of how to do that: invite the press. Pakistan, North Korea, India & others can serve as a good example.

In fact, while most nuclear powers have dabbled in the idea of 'how could we conceal a nuclear test', it seems that only Israel is capable of doing it. That is an argument from the absence of evidence unfortunately.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#370

Post by bufferoverflow » Sun, Mar 09, 2025, 3:48 PM UTC

preisschild wrote: post #352

bufferoverflow wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has been pretty vocal about exactly that. He said multiple times that European countries must increase defense budgets significantly.

Yeah, but EU countries donated weapons like the F-16, which were bought from the US in the first place. So now we have to use another source for those weapon systems and the revenue/jobs won't end up in the US. Is this really what the US wants?

That's US's problem. Which is very minor compared to Ukraine's or Europe's problems with this war.