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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#471

Time for us in Europe to man up.

[flagged]

The point stands that Europe needs to arm itself. Europe needs to be able to defend itself without the US.

Indeed there is slight toxicity to calling this 'manning up'. Especially towards men, where it signals that men should be strong enough to defend themselves. Which wronly reinforces the idea that capability in violence is a positive trait in men.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

No, that's not it. I'm writing this from rural America in deep Trump territory, and people here are already struggling and have been for years. From their perspective they've been left out of the benefits of the global economy—the big cities and the coasts might be better off, but the middle of the country wants to go back to when they had opportunities and jobs for working class Americans. They're almost certainly w…

How big a role did race and religion play? I'm genuinely curious because the mainstream media won't talk about it, perhaps out of a sense of political correctness. But it seems odd that they're framing the election as a referendum on economics, when the Trump campaign didn't even float a coherent economic agenda.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Republicans switched from "the immigrants are stealing your jobs" to "the immigrants are stealing your cats."

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#473
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I'm the most cynical person I know, and somehow I spent 38 years thinking the US would always be on top, and despite the smaller scale invasions and the odd assassination, would maintain world peace and fund prosperity for all in terms of fundamental research.

I knew that democracy was fragile and that losing it could happen to all of us - except the US. somehow I believed their separation of powers would always work, that the pretence of freedoms would always be in the interest of Western oligarchs.

it's been a tough 6 weeks for me.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that Trump wants Zelenskyy to sign the minerals deal and that implicitly there’s security guarantees. I don't think there are any "security guarantees". What could they be? The "endgame" as far as I understand it: The US wants access to the minerals as a compensation for the money already spent and, perhaps, to restore some of the support currently put on hold (satellite data access). Once the Ukranian…

I think the implicit guarantee is if American business and workers are harvesting minerals then if Russia attacked the USA would have even more incentive to intervene militarily. That said, I don’t know what more Ukraine would want given the Budapest Memorandum already ties the USA, UK, and Russia to Ukraine’s defense. That’s proven to be a mixed success, as both USA, UK, and other countries have indeed stepped up fo…

American businesses and workers operate all over the world. No-one thinks that this means that all these countries will receive military support from the US if they are invaded.

Another relevant detail here is that a lot of the resources included in the deal are in territory that's currently occupied by Russia – which Trump clearly envisions Russia keeping in any peace settlement.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#475
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Taiwan is now going to be seriously worried.

Defending Taiwan is - unfortunately - a suicide mission.

I'd rather not engage a hot war with China over it.

We're going to have enough on our plate keeping China out of the Caribbean and our half of the Pacific.

Buckle up.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#476
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

Russia might buy some

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#477
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

> somehow completely controlled by Russia

Yeah, about that... Analysis by Grok says "75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset"

https://x.com/i/grok/share/WQepvCpIJl2EJ0F7tHNbLAhm6

Can you imagine if this were true?

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#478
post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

> end of an empire Imperialism is not good, so this is welcome.

I'm sure Greenland, Panama, and Gaza will be relieved to hear that.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#479

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

I have friends working on the French Rafale. Really expensive plane, mildly successful so far. They are really busy right now.

Ironically India's decision to go with Rafale looks great in the current circumstances.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#480

Time for us in Europe to man up.

Is no one in Europe not skeptical of the increase in defense spending? Things have costs, that money is having to come from somewhere. Is increasing traditional military spending the way to go in the 21st century? If the decision is left to military leaders,they might spend massive amounts of money preparing to fight yesterday's war. If you set aside alarmist positions, it may very well possible that Russia has no in…

Are you arguing against spending money on armies at all, or do you want Europe to spend money on more effective weapons?
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