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US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

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Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#391

Post by Springtime »

The article is written to give the reader the impression only the US can reprogram the jamming system and the comments seem to mostly be taking it at face value.

In the very Forbes article the OP's article cites it links to info about this F-16 reprogramming effort[1], showing it was collaboration between the US/Norway/Denmark and that the US electronic warfare team wasn't familiar with the system, yet within two weeks they say they managed to reprogram them to meet the initial deadline.

> The 68th EWS assembled a dedicated team comprised of a mixture of seasoned experts and bright, young engineers to approach the reprograming challenge. Their first task was to understand the unfamiliar EW system and how to reprogram it.

> Relying on data provided by Denmark and Norway, then adapting new processes and approaches to the usual process, the team was able to understand the system and start their work.

> After understanding the system, the 68th EWS deviated again from normal methods and sent its members overseas to a partner-nation lab to collaboratively develop and test the system alongside coalition teammates.

[1] https://www.dvidshub.net/news/479401/dominate-spectrum-350th...

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#392

Post by Cornbilly »

lolinder wrote: post #258
samcheng wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

No, that's not it. I'm writing this from rural America in deep Trump territory, and people here are already struggling and have been for years. From their perspective they've been left out of the benefits of the global economy—the big cities and the coasts might be better off, but the middle of the country wants to go back to when they had opportunities and jobs for working class Americans. They're almost certainly w…

> Downvoting people who actually understand Trump voters and try to vocalize their needs and perspectives just silences the voices that could be used to shape a better platform for the Democrats next time. You won't win elections by fighting a straw man invented by your echo chamber.

Living in Trump country doesn’t give you any extra credibility. I also live in “Trump Country” and say that the real reason is because they’re all goofs that fell into a personality cult due to the decline of US education and this country’s obsession with celebrity. Who is correct?

Save the downvote victim complex for Reddit.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#393

Post by nxm »

fvrther wrote: post #375

France sending jets while the U.S. waves the white flag? Looks like the surrender baton just got passed westward.

Sigh… a few jets can’t compare to level of aid American tax payer has given the past few years. More than OK with France finally doing something.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#394

Post by layer8 »

jopsen wrote: post #115
tw2347288 wrote: post #114

I'm glad that this discussion finally takes place, even though the discussion is of course flagged. You can flag here, but the mainstream press has picked up the issue: "Can the US switch off Europe’s weapons?" https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc... "Such is the concern that debate has turned to whether the US maintains secret so-called kill switches that would immobilise aircraft and weapons…

Yeah, not delivering additional aid for free is one thing. But retracting support is the nuclear option. Figuratively, because you can probably one do it once, so you better pick a good reason for doing it. And literally, because small European countries do now have to consider nukes.

Not just small European countries, but all European countries that do not have their own nukes, which is all except France. The issue is, they’ll have to leave the Non-Proliferation Treaty for that (except for the UK, I think), and once an otherwise respected country does that, the floodgates would be open in the world. The other problem is that such a decision would be very divisive in the European country’s electorate, and therefore highly problematic on its domestic political front. This is simply not likely to happen.

A more realistic outcome is that French nukes will be stationed in other European countries. But France is also not willing to give up exclusive control over those nukes, and the next French government could very well be far-right, and thus become as unreliable as the current US government. It’s a difficult situation.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#395

Post by acdha »

forinti wrote: post #215
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Realistically, is there anything the Danes could do, except protest?

Economic sanctions alone would be enough - notice how Trump pauses shooting at our collective feet every time Wall Street reacts negatively? – but also note that our adventures in the Middle East failed after trillions of dollars because it’s much easier to blow things up than it is to build stable countries. A far less competent crew is not going to sway civilians more effectively and I doubt that they’re going to convince many Americans to personally help colonize Greenland.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#396

Post by hkpack »

yimby2001 wrote: post #336
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

No one is using fighter jets in this war. Why? And everyone (who knows) knows this: The anti-air technology is too good to field a jet. It will just get shot down. so the Jets are now useless. so there’s no point in supporting useless jets. And no country is going to buy useless jets. But go on and make this political and not about some physical reality of our world.

That is extremely misguided take.

Fighter jets are extremely valuable, they are not a magic weapon though, but just one of the very important tool for the military to have.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#397

Post by colinprince »

epistasis wrote: post #266
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

I always thought that the American Empire would be dismantled when it elected a leftist steeped in anti-imperialist ideology who wanted to better the world. Nope, turns out that the American Empire is being dismantled by something else entirely. A subset of the populace that feels jealous of those with more and scared of social change, reacting to try to hurt their fellow country men? A megalomaniac leader who is som…

I read recently that Patrimonialism is a good way of describing the current regime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrimonialism

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#398

Post by blibble »

lucasyvas wrote: post #388
ta988 wrote: post #228

And the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am re…

It’s easy to prove that half is wrong as well because all the US’ (past) global friends are screaming at the US trying to save them from driving off the cliff. It’s one thing for the US to want to remake itself - gradual, cooperative plans to reduce engagement on the world stage over multiple years would have been something manageable. Pulling the cord with such little respect will not be forgotten. The USD will be l…

> The USD will be lucky to still be the reserve currency in 5-10 years time.

if the US regime carries on at the rate it has over the last month I expect it will be gone considerably faster than this

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#399

Post by alistairSH »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #339
samcheng wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.

My mental model is that it will hurt the S&P500 but benefit the working class.

How? Trickle down has failed every time it’s been employed, most recently in Kansas. And as far as I can tell, massive tax cuts for the donor class is all we’re getting this budget cycle.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#400

Post by lucasyvas »

galleywest200 wrote: post #374
lucasyvas wrote: post #315

I find some of the comments I’ve read today in this thread somewhat enlightening - there is intelligent conversation about the capabilities of the American hardware and its software. The sophistication of the F-35 cannot be debated. But the rest of the world doesn’t trust the US anymore, so it doesn’t matter how good it is - people would gladly explore a worse product because they see it as lower risk. That’s the rea…

>and its superiority is front and center. The vast majority of the comments I am reading on this site are not stating this. The vast majority, even the Americans, are agreeing that this is a bad decision. Unsure where you got this from.

Specifically the F-35, as that phrasing is ambiguous within the context I wrote it.
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