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How to know when it's time to go

bitfieldconsulting.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#41

The issue that I have with this type of article and why they never resonate with me is that they seem to assume you’ll be able to find a job with a similar salary if not a higher one, by snapping your fingers. I’ll tell you my experience: I’ve been working for 21 years, and I’ve only worked for two companies in that time period (there was a short stint at a third one, but I didn’t fully quit one of the other two so I…

I don't really know your situation, so this is not really an answer to you, but I know way too many people in this situation, so I'll chime in with some experience.

My previous company is a horrible workplace, so after I left a lot of ex-colleagues also revealed they've also been wanting to leave. They all mention the job market currently sucks and that "the pay is too good and nobody is giving the same salary". So they all stayed at the company and are complaining about the ridiculous 1.5% salary increase which the HR attributes to "the CTO being spineless and afraid of the CEO".

I have passed their numbers to recruiters, I have recommended them at companies I said "no" to, I have even took time to coach them. But when I talk with recruiters it's the same: "ah yeah your guy just ghosted me", "can you ask them to reply to my email?", "they missed the first interview I set up for them".

Digging deeper, they're all depressed. They're not doing sports/activities, not going out anymore, not traveling, not replying to messages...

My friends from the company that are still thriving at the job? I still see every week.

Three of the happy ones got promotions straight from the CEO, because the problematic CTO does not give promotions. The other happy ones all work in different parts of the company.

So for anyone in this situation I would stop and assess your mental health. A job can really fuck you up, and some bosses will fuck you up regardless of how good you are.

So: It might be the case that the problem is the job, it might be the case that the problem is not there, but it requires one to spend a non-trivial amount of energy that is currently being sucked by the job.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of meaning up for grabs in parts of life that don't have anything to do with money. nicely said, but the most significant (time-wise) portion of our lives is earning means to do other parts. if I am miserable for 8-9-10 hours per day chances are I will he fairly miserable the rest of the time as well…

That is exactly my point. We have designed the economy with the expectation that anyone able should be investing that much time to make ends meet, when we could lower our expectations and output to ease that burden instead. But that is an entirely radical paradigm shift in the direction of solar punk / degrowth that the world just doesn't seem interested in.

could not agree more. I look at this as basic economics, in order to “have more” you have basically two choices:

- increase earnings

- decrease expenses

In USA at least, I think the 2nd group is <1% of people

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it is pretty clear that there was work-before-I-started-raising-a-young-family and work after. To be clear, it wasn't over-night. After all, it took me quite a bit of time to adjust to my new role in life as "father". But once it started to embrace me (or, you know, vice-versa) the importance of work and its rewards diminished significantly. In short, I was soon content to put in the work that got the job done…

My experience is there is this dynamic you are describing, and then there's the period when your kids enter late adolescence or get ready to go off to college, and suddenly it's time to invent yourself again. It can be very difficult to adjust to the process for when your kids are no longer tied to you at the hip for physical and emotional support on the day to day cycle and it's more on the macro ... financial... le…

Yeah, the empty nest is a trying time when you've identified primarily as "father" for over two decades.

At the same time, "reinventing myself" was to retire at exactly that moment. I was lucky of course to be able to do that — by cashing-out the expensive California home and then "down size" back to the midwest where I grew up.

I am considering substitute teaching in the area in order to maintain an income — a more modest one, this being Nebraska.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it doesn’t feel good on the spot, but as a single hopeless man, I can tell you that having children is meaning. If only because the world doesn’t listen to single men. So, enjoy your glimpse of power. Repeat your life day after day, and you will understand one day.

I’ve never understood this infinite loop thinking. Why is it meaning to create new people who in turn will have to create new people to derive meaning for themselves?

Where do you propose meaning be derived?

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#46
> I don’t have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. When you hate your job, no matter how much you try to put up with it, there comes a point where you’re mad as hell and you’re just not going to take it anymore. So, maybe this is the right moment to reflect: is it time to go?

I think only people who have stayed long enough would feel that way: and chances are by the time you feel this way it's because of external things that you can't change, and internal (values) that you are unwilling to adjust/sacrifice.

If you get to this point then you should probably just go and _maybe_ leave the reflection till later -- at that point it's too far beyond the point to reflecting on whether you should go or not.

> For example, if you’ve already become a so-called “senior” developer at Company A, and then you apply for the same job at Company B, you may find that their definition of “senior” is rather different, and that you don’t meet it. You’re a victim of title inflation: the currency of “senior” has become devalued.

Keep in mind that there are companies that do the opposite: they make you feel like you are not worth as much so that they can underpay you as much as possible, and only start throwing money at you when they are scared that you may leave and your leaving can have substantial impact on the company.

If you have never worked at places like that before I'm happy for you but know that there are lots of these places out there that manage to keep very bright people. These places typically have people with very high IQ in execs/management and they do everything to convince you that everything is about the mission (usually a genuinely worthwhile mission). They have long selection processes that weed out those who are _only_ technically capable -- they only hire those who are technically capable, will truly believe in the mission, kind, and subservient. They typically have long interviews (2 months + regardless of what level you are) and ask very probing questions (many would find uncomfortable even if they end up accepting the job) during topgrading so that they can identify whether or not they can hold you hostage.

The result is they will make you feel incompetent forever, and you will only realise how good you actually are when you finally have the courage to step outside -- by that time you will likely have been paid "unfairly" for years and have your career hampered.

> In particular, the HR department is not your friend. They’re not your enemy, necessarily, but they exist to protect the company from you, and not vice versa.

I find these kind of literal explanation of situations pretty pointless. When you are in a tough situation, and assuming that you are reasonable, then the party that isn't protecting your interest is literally your enemy. If the company wants to fire you and HR is doing that anyway (sometimes even doing everything they can to silence you even know they know it's unreasonable or even unlawful), then they're your enemies.

Only people who are reasonable and care for others will read statements like "they're not your friend but also not your enemy" as something meaningful, think about it and make their own lives hell. I wish people would stop giving this type of pseudo advice to people like they are presenting a balanced view when it really isn't.

"Hey, it's literally their job to screw you over to protect the company even when it's morally wrong, so don't blame them for just doing their job, OK?" Does that sound reasonable to you?

> In particular, you should give your boss a chance to change your mind—or, at least, you should let them feel that they’ve had that chance.

Making them feel like they have that chance is fine, giving them that chance is actually bad advice. If you have made up your mind to leave and made preparations, hopefully you have a job lined up if you're not retiring, then don't give them any chance and don't cave in to more money (if they can pay you substantially more that also shows that they have been underpaying you knowingly and your manager haven't been looking out for you anyway -- the relationship is already broken and you will just fell more miserable if you accept it). The whole point of this article is that you already hate it and want to go, so don't think twice and make it more difficult for yourself.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#47

> you’re the king of a very small hill, and one that will eventually be washed away by rising sea levels. If this is the case, you need to migrate to higher ground before it’s too late. But many people will hesitate, fatally, because they don’t like the idea of getting their feet wet. So true in the Age of AI.

My issue is I'm not sure where the higher ground will exist or how realistic it is for me to believe that there will be enough room for me. Things in tech are changing alarmingly fast and the hype around it makes it very difficult to sort out the truth from the rest.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#48
post #13

>Ultimately, work that’s too easy is no fun, and it’s not the basis of a rewarding career. All you’re doing is selling time, and as you get a little older you’ll come to realise that time is a non-renewable resource. There's this strange myth that white collar workers try and find meaning or reward in their work. If the stars align so that the unquenchable thirst from your brain can be satiated with white collar work…

> invest that time where you're sure to derive meaning from it. all my time is taken up with doing work, chores at home and childcare. I feel fucking depressed.

How old are your kids? I found it was really tough for me until they hit around age 3 or 4. Getting them into school helped enormously. As they grew older it became easier for me to reason with them and they also became more capable of taking care of themselves and even helping me with some things.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#49
I don’t understand how talented engineers can just job hop. I’ve spent 6 years at the current job, and while I feel safe and ready to try something new they’ve thrown so much RSUs at me (and their stock has done so well) that I stand to lose a life-changing sum of money if I just leave. People casually changing their jobs feel about as foreign to me as people who purposely seek a sense of meaning from their job. Am I thinking about this wrong, or is this just the “golden handcuffs” thing people sometimes speak of.

I often find myself daydreaming of, post-vesting, moving somewhere cheaper and getting a part time job at a coffee shop. Now that I’m largely out of survival mode, I dream of a life where I can just own a home and participate in a community without being stuck in a place that feels like one big ponzi scheme. I feel like any corporate engineering job is built to steal as much of that from you as possible.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#50
post #49

I don’t understand how talented engineers can just job hop. I’ve spent 6 years at the current job, and while I feel safe and ready to try something new they’ve thrown so much RSUs at me (and their stock has done so well) that I stand to lose a life-changing sum of money if I just leave . People casually changing their jobs feel about as foreign to me as people who purposely seek a sense of meaning from their job. Am…

You think most hoppers are walking away from life changing money?

You think hoppers aren’t calculating it’s in their interest to hop?

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