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How to know when it's time to go

bitfieldconsulting.com

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#31

The issue that I have with this type of article and why they never resonate with me is that they seem to assume you’ll be able to find a job with a similar salary if not a higher one, by snapping your fingers. I’ll tell you my experience: I’ve been working for 21 years, and I’ve only worked for two companies in that time period (there was a short stint at a third one, but I didn’t fully quit one of the other two so I…

Hey, I'm really sorry that you feel this way. I happen to know a lot of people who were/are in similar situations as the one you described, many of whom I have worked with for at least a few years, some are very young and some are a bit older.

They all knew that they had to leave because they were feeling miserable but they didn't because they were scared of not being able to find a job elsewhere. What didn't help was that management threw just enough money at those who're perceived to be performing well and made it even harder for them to leave.

Eventually layoffs happened. Almost all of them ended up finding better work conditions and substantially higher salaries elsewhere except for the most senior ones who have been around for a long time. The problem with the very senior (staff +) engineers is mostly only a salary problem because (relatively) they have been too loyal and don't have the track record to convince people that they are worth as much as they claim they do. The problem is that the longer you stay, the more this is a problem -- so if you see somewhere that you can take a small pay cut to get the opportunity to grow and be happier and have more room to grow, you probably should start trying now.

I can't comment much about your situations but at least in my country engineers are relatively well-paid -- yet people still hesitate to leave because of family, or mortgage or... whatever reasons they can come up with. Those are usually just excuses in my opinion -- nobody is asking you to ditch everything today without a plan. There is certainly a chance that you can get a job elsewhere and end up not passing probation, but that's up for you to gauge.

At the end of the day there is really nothing stopping you from trying except for yourself and irrational thoughts. Staying at the same job for too long is a risk in itself, it doesn't stop them from giving you a month of notice now and you'll be gone next month -- it doesn't matter if you're hardworking or if you think you know some parts of the system better than anyone. No matter how hard you try, emotions do leak slowly over time even if you're very careful to not show them, so be careful about that too.

It may sound harsh but if it has been going on for a long time and you are not willing to take (calculated) risks and make small, temporary sacrifice for a potentially better future, you are basically just victimizing yourself.

Start by applying for jobs and interview. If you think this management will likely get rid of you because of AI then that's more reason to go somewhere else that may value you more. Nobody knows how well AI will get compared to any of us, but if you're worried now then do something about it: expand your skill set horizontally, actually look for other opportunities regularly, _connect_ with people so that you're not just a number on a payroll, etc.

I wish you all the best and find meaning and hope in what you do soon!

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> invest that time where you're sure to derive meaning from it. all my time is taken up with doing work, chores at home and childcare. I feel fucking depressed.

I know it doesn’t feel good on the spot, but as a single hopeless man, I can tell you that having children is meaning. If only because the world doesn’t listen to single men. So, enjoy your glimpse of power. Repeat your life day after day, and you will understand one day.

I’ve never understood this infinite loop thinking. Why is it meaning to create new people who in turn will have to create new people to derive meaning for themselves?

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#33
post #22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's this strange myth that white collar workers try and find meaning or reward in their work. It’s not entirely a myth. I am one of those people. But I do think that most people kind of just go through the motions. It’s possible that my work history helped shape my perspective. My earliest jobs were things like unloading trucks, stocking shelves, and waiting tables. Those are hard jobs, physically. When I final…

>So it’s not that white collar workers (or even blue collar workers) try to find meaning in their work. Some do, some don’t. It’s that they SHOULD. Since blue collar work tends towards more tangible outcomes I would think finding meaning in blue collar work is easier, but that's speaking as an office drone. Maybe the grass is greener, but it seems to me that receiving a broken motorcycle and it leaving your shop runn…

The mental trick I have always used, and the rationale I have employed to make myself feel better, is that a good job matters more than a bad job. This is not always true. But it is often true. And in my life it has been true often enough that people have noticed, commented on it, and I have been explicitly promoted because of it.

I hear the comment about coming home too tired to enjoy one’s own time. That happens to me even now, in a fulfilling job. I often feel too tired to even play a video game (it doesn’t help that many games feel like work). The only solution I’ve found to that particular problem is to find a different job. Fortunately, in my current job, it does not happen often enough that I am willing to give it up just yet. And I still see a path (and progress) toward my goals in my current job.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#34
post #13

>Ultimately, work that’s too easy is no fun, and it’s not the basis of a rewarding career. All you’re doing is selling time, and as you get a little older you’ll come to realise that time is a non-renewable resource. There's this strange myth that white collar workers try and find meaning or reward in their work. If the stars align so that the unquenchable thirst from your brain can be satiated with white collar work…

For me it is pretty clear that there was work-before-I-started-raising-a-young-family and work after. To be clear, it wasn't over-night. After all, it took me quite a bit of time to adjust to my new role in life as "father". But once it started to embrace me (or, you know, vice-versa) the importance of work and its rewards diminished significantly. In short, I was soon content to put in the work that got the job done…

My experience is there is this dynamic you are describing, and then there's the period when your kids enter late adolescence or get ready to go off to college, and suddenly it's time to invent yourself again.

It can be very difficult to adjust to the process for when your kids are no longer tied to you at the hip for physical and emotional support on the day to day cycle and it's more on the macro ... financial... level.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it is pretty clear that there was work-before-I-started-raising-a-young-family and work after. To be clear, it wasn't over-night. After all, it took me quite a bit of time to adjust to my new role in life as "father". But once it started to embrace me (or, you know, vice-versa) the importance of work and its rewards diminished significantly. In short, I was soon content to put in the work that got the job done…

I think this is what is missing from most people (especially here, where its more likely to be dream driven?). Once you have a kid (and properly well adjusted), your life is no longer yours. You can't go on a sabbatical as a father. Your child's future will appear to be the most important thing to you and everything becomes secondary. I think this is probably what life is for the majority of people. Work is just some…

>This is one of the reason why I think that "dead jobs" is not necessarily a bad thing. It points to a much larger question of "why are we even doing this in the first place?"

That's a wonderfully succinct way of putting it. We've lost sight of what the economy is for, or maybe we've never had it nailed.

Dead jobs can be fine. I've done brain dead system administration for 3 days a week with a 4 day weekend. My bills were paid. I have a more stressful higher paying job now but it wasn't worth it; the new car is nice but on the whole I would've been better off driving a beater and having the time and energy to live life on my own terms. I think that's why I'm doing it in the first place.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#36
post #33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So it’s not that white collar workers (or even blue collar workers) try to find meaning in their work. Some do, some don’t. It’s that they SHOULD. Since blue collar work tends towards more tangible outcomes I would think finding meaning in blue collar work is easier, but that's speaking as an office drone. Maybe the grass is greener, but it seems to me that receiving a broken motorcycle and it leaving your shop runn…

The mental trick I have always used, and the rationale I have employed to make myself feel better, is that a good job matters more than a bad job. This is not always true. But it is often true. And in my life it has been true often enough that people have noticed, commented on it, and I have been explicitly promoted because of it. I hear the comment about coming home too tired to enjoy one’s own time. That happens to…

You seem to be very lucky to have found your niche.

In most companies people neither notice, nor comment and certainly don't promote you for doing a good job.

Most corporate software engineering job are about how good you are playing the corporate social games. Being exceptionally good at programming does not matter. It can even be a hindrance as it means you get more work and are less likely to be promoted as you are "irreplaceable" and your coworkers and hire-ups might start to hate you because they feel threatened by you.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#37

The issue that I have with this type of article and why they never resonate with me is that they seem to assume you’ll be able to find a job with a similar salary if not a higher one, by snapping your fingers. I’ll tell you my experience: I’ve been working for 21 years, and I’ve only worked for two companies in that time period (there was a short stint at a third one, but I didn’t fully quit one of the other two so I…

At my current job, where I’ve been for 14 of those 21 years, I feel simultaneously underappreciated and overpayed.

This is a really, really good problem to have. In my opinion, you should look for fulfillment elsewhere in life.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#38
post #13

>Ultimately, work that’s too easy is no fun, and it’s not the basis of a rewarding career. All you’re doing is selling time, and as you get a little older you’ll come to realise that time is a non-renewable resource. There's this strange myth that white collar workers try and find meaning or reward in their work. If the stars align so that the unquenchable thirst from your brain can be satiated with white collar work…

Work is not just something one has to do in exchange for the allowance to do more meaningful non-work things, or at least it shouldn't. Your view sounds like escapism.

To work is to take part in the economy, ie in the collective endeavor to produce a better life.

Now of course, our modern world being based on decoupling the work from its output, maybe I'm the one sounding like an escapist right now :)

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#39

One thing that I realized recently is that humans are not "designed" to be happy. We will always not be content with the current state of being. We will always be looking for the next improvement or change. In a sense, what humans actually care about is the derivative of their state. The absolute state doesn't matter that much. I mean, why would it? Why would evolution design a creature that is content? Happiness and…

Yes, your brain's main goal is survival. You don't need to be happy to live.

Hedonism is a dead end. The best way is to make up some higher meaning for oneself, be it creating a better world, raising a child, spirituality, being an artist or whatever. You concerns should be bigger than yourself but still manageable.

Re: How to know when it's time to go

#40
> you’re the king of a very small hill, and one that will eventually be washed away by rising sea levels. If this is the case, you need to migrate to higher ground before it’s too late. But many people will hesitate, fatally, because they don’t like the idea of getting their feet wet.

So true in the Age of AI.

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