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Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

omgubuntu.co.uk

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Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#161

Post by dcow »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #158
treesknees wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was more that you claimed to not understand and I was just providing an example where it does take longer than “15 seconds” to switch to Kagi. iOS/iPhone has the majority mobile market share in many countries including the United States. If you’re unaware, Google is currently being sued by the US government for establishing a monopoly over search engine placement including payments to Apple and Mozilla to ke…

> My point was more that you claimed to not understand and I was just providing an example where it does take longer than “15 seconds” to switch to Kagi. It's an example, but it's not an example that proves the point. > iOS/iPhone has the majority mobile market share in many countries including the United States. If you’re unaware, Google is currently being sued by the US government for establishing a monopoly over s…

I find it hard to believe that Google just happens to be the default search engine everywhere. And that the best user experience for Apple’s users is to have a search engine list that you have to pay to be on. And that if you change your default search engine or browser newtab half the browsers out there will nag you to switch it back for “security”. And if you visit the internet’s home page on anything other than Chrome you get bombarded with popups compelling you to install Chrome.

If you’re not aware of the “collusion” you might just be asleep at the wheel. You may be right semantically, though: it might not really be collusion—it’s simply light of day bribery.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#162

Post by dcow »

Mossy9 wrote: post #7

I've been loving Kagi search and am really looking forward to Orion being available outside Apple land. You can join the email list here: https://kagi.com/changelog#6479 I'm a bit worried that Kagi might be over-extending here. Instead of focusing and capitalizing on search, they're expanding to the difficult business of browsers. I'm always hesitant when companies try to do everything everywhere all at once, since t…

Didn’t Kagi ship Orion first, before the search product?

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#163

Post by SllX »

throwaway7858 wrote: post #159
SllX wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Kagi has fairly strong views on user privacy as far as I can tell. I don’t know what his opinion of Windows is, but I’m willing to bet there’s a personal dislike of Windows and Android that is at least partially affecting the decision-making process here. They also don’t seem like they’re trying to go big, just stay profitable.

Android can be much more private than iOS if you pull the right levers - GrapheneOS is based on Android after all.

Sure, can be. On the other hand, most people are running Google’s Android or a PRC-market exclusive offshoot on Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei and OnePlus phones. That’s Android. Everything else is a rounding error.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#164

Post by Dylan16807 »

dcow wrote: post #161
Dylan16807 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point was more that you claimed to not understand and I was just providing an example where it does take longer than “15 seconds” to switch to Kagi. It's an example, but it's not an example that proves the point. > iOS/iPhone has the majority mobile market share in many countries including the United States. If you’re unaware, Google is currently being sued by the US government for establishing a monopoly over s…

I find it hard to believe that Google just happens to be the default search engine everywhere. And that the best user experience for Apple’s users is to have a search engine list that you have to pay to be on. And that if you change your default search engine or browser newtab half the browsers out there will nag you to switch it back for “security”. And if you visit the internet’s home page on anything other than Ch…

> I find it hard to believe that Google just happens to be the default search engine everywhere.

I didn't say there wasn't collusion of any kind. I said Google being the default on android is not collusion with browser vendors.

And on Windows, Bing is the default.

> And if you visit the internet’s home page on anything other than Chrome you get bombarded with popups compelling you to install Chrome.

Self-promotion is not collusion.

Also critical to my point is that collusion to set a mere default is not what the original comment was talking about. You don't need to switch your browser to "lay bare the depth" of a default. They were talking about something much stronger.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#165

Post by evanreichard »

jmbwell wrote: post #56
james_pm wrote: post #17

Orion for macOS is still pretty buggy and, in my experience, a bit too frustrating to use as my default browser. I want to use it and pay the $5/month even though I don't use it all the time. It's close to being good, but not quite there yet.

Counteranecdata: I use Orion every day as my daily driver on my work machine, together with Bitwarden for passwords and a couple simple extensions. I can’t remember it crashing or failing to render a page, and at least on my apple silicon machine, it has been very polite with resources.

The current version of Bitwarden straight up doesn't work in Orion [0]. I ran into this yesterday when setting it up for the first time. Wasn't a great first experience as it's literally the only extension that is a deal breaker to me.

I'm still giving Orion a chance for now... I just installed a slightly older version that works.

[0] https://orionfeedback.org/d/10197-bitwarden-hangs-on-load

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#166

Post by dcow »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #164
dcow wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that Google just happens to be the default search engine everywhere. And that the best user experience for Apple’s users is to have a search engine list that you have to pay to be on. And that if you change your default search engine or browser newtab half the browsers out there will nag you to switch it back for “security”. And if you visit the internet’s home page on anything other than Ch…

> I find it hard to believe that Google just happens to be the default search engine everywhere. I didn't say there wasn't collusion of any kind. I said Google being the default on android is not collusion with browser vendors . And on Windows, Bing is the default. > And if you visit the internet’s home page on anything other than Chrome you get bombarded with popups compelling you to install Chrome. Self-promotion i…

The point is there are non-trivial examples where it’s really hard to switch your default search engine away from Google/Bing because all paths lead back to them (via platform self-promotion and paid placement). One might even argue that the dominant search engine owning the dominant user-agent is implicitly illegal (and thus I guess collusive, but I digress). I don’t really know what we’re arguing anymore. I think everyone knows that it’s not universally easy to switch your search engine. The fact that there are good examples like Android does not invalidate the bad examples like *OS and Windows. It’s difficult enough that I can’t believe it’s all natural and organic. Money is changing hands and/or the spirit of existing laws is being ignored to enforce or at least maim the optimal-for-users search experience. Certainly we can agree on that much.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#167

Post by wkat4242 »

colingauvin wrote: post #35
wkat4242 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably need your address for tax purposes. Especially the EU is really strict on charging us VAT for foreign purchases. It does completely kill the anonymity though, I agree. It's strange that in this case they're worse than something like duck duck go. Because they don't require payment they simply have less data on you (especially confirmed data). I'm sure kagi protects it but the data you don't even have is…

You can detach searching from any association with your paid account: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-pass.html

Yeah but that means trusting them.

I don't need to trust anyone not to share information they don't even have.

They should really allow anonymous payments like mullvad does. There you're just a random number and you can pay with crypto without any addresses.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#169

Post by lawn »

Crontab wrote: post #95
Mossy9 wrote: post #7

I've been loving Kagi search and am really looking forward to Orion being available outside Apple land. You can join the email list here: https://kagi.com/changelog#6479 I'm a bit worried that Kagi might be over-extending here. Instead of focusing and capitalizing on search, they're expanding to the difficult business of browsers. I'm always hesitant when companies try to do everything everywhere all at once, since t…

Doesn't Kagi Search just regurgitate Google's search results?

Kagi has much better results in my experience.

Re: Kagi Is Bringing Orion Web Browser to Linux

#170

Post by bpev »

nicce wrote: post #30
james_pm wrote: post #17

Orion for macOS is still pretty buggy and, in my experience, a bit too frustrating to use as my default browser. I want to use it and pay the $5/month even though I don't use it all the time. It's close to being good, but not quite there yet.

Some bugs are pretty bad. There was one that drained my battery in 30mins. But I know it is difficult for a small team.

Yeahhhh this exact bug is why I haven’t been able to use Orion as my main browser. I usually use Safari, pretty much purely for the battery life gains.
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