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The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#351

Post by stickfigure »

ethbr1 wrote: post #333
kweingar wrote: post #320

Here's something I don't understand. If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS, you open Settings, tap Safari, tap Search Engine, and tap your preferred search engine. Not many users do this, and the conclusion is that the default has an unfair advantage. If you want to make Chrome your desktop browser, you open the default browser, search for Chrome, click the correct result, download the installer,…

> If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS... I can set Kagi as the default search engine on iOS? Because last I checked, Apple hardcoded their list of options.

Sounds like an issue between Apple and Kagi?

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#352

Post by inetknght »

john_the_writer wrote: post #317
mmphosis wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one's building new browsers Ladybird, servo, and Flow are new browsers currently being built. These new browsers are not derived from any of the big three browser engines: Google Chromium, Apple WebKit, and Mozilla Gecko. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines

Sure, but their standards, and what they support aren't even something you can look up. As a JS dev these are the stuff of nightmares.

Learn to write native applications instead.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#353

Post by notatoad »

john_the_writer wrote: post #313
notatoad wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a simple world, a web browser is a tool that is used by an end-user, and so end-users should be the ones paying for it. whether that's directly as paid software, or indirectly as part of purchasing a device that has the software installed on it.

gha.. Another subscription based app. I can see it now: 2.99/month. Also we already have browsers pre-installed. Safari and IE(or what ever it's called these days) There's no call to advance these though. Chrome has profiles. That alone makes it a winner for my use case.

The alternative to paying for things is that giant megacorporations who have interests in opposition to yours are the ones paying for things…

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#354

Post by burnerthrow008 »

colinplamondon wrote: post #294
maxclark wrote: post #132

First I don't believe this is an effective remedy to break up a Google monopoly, but I have no influence on the DOJ. I'm curious though, if Google can no longer pay browsers for search engine traffic what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? What happens to all the applications that rely on Chrome…

- Google pays Firefox ~$500M/year for 2.5% market share, 65% market share should get a healthy annual payout for default search status. - A pure focus on web browser monetization could lead to some interesting enterprise options. Presumably there'll be a lot of attempts to leverage Chromium, and an aggressive fork at some point. - As AI proliferates, can they pull additional revenue by getting revshare from subscript…

Ok, but if Google is not allowed to pay Apple for search referrals, how exactly will it be legal for Google to pay not-Google-Chrome for search referrals?

Chrome's non-iOS market share is probably larger than Safari's market share, so any monopoly considerations about Safari apply equally to Chrome.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#355

Post by rudedogg »

kweingar wrote: post #320

Here's something I don't understand. If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS, you open Settings, tap Safari, tap Search Engine, and tap your preferred search engine. Not many users do this, and the conclusion is that the default has an unfair advantage. If you want to make Chrome your desktop browser, you open the default browser, search for Chrome, click the correct result, download the installer,…

You get nagged to do it by the most popular website in the world (google.com) if you're using something else, which might be part of the problem.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#357

Post by makeitdouble »

guywithahat wrote: post #330
bearjaws wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mere existence of a competitor is not the spirit of antitrust. Look at what Google does with Chrome and how it harms the internet, they literally just disabled an ad blocker and then offered a new tier of ad free Youtube for $8 a month. Then think about the power it gives them for tracking, remember they tried to replace tracking cookies with their own standard?

The counterpoint would be anyone can fork Chrome and put an adblocker back in (ie Brave). I worry as part of Google, chrome is just an open source project with profit as a secondary motive, while as it’s own company they’ll probably try to make it more profitable and it’ll become worse and closed down.

On the one hand you're positing that Chrome can just live on independently from Google. That 's what "anyone can fork" means to me. Forking is not just copying the code, but maintaining the project and keeping it relevant

On the other hand you worry that Chrome can't go on without Google, as it currently doesn't bring enough money and needs to be a market abuse tool to justify the costs.

In a very real way, I think if the situation is unsolvable letting Chrome die and be born again could be the only long term solution. It would be painful, but we're already bleeding.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#358

Post by creato »

rudedogg wrote: post #355
kweingar wrote: post #320

Here's something I don't understand. If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS, you open Settings, tap Safari, tap Search Engine, and tap your preferred search engine. Not many users do this, and the conclusion is that the default has an unfair advantage. If you want to make Chrome your desktop browser, you open the default browser, search for Chrome, click the correct result, download the installer,…

You get nagged to do it by the most popular website in the world (google.com) if you're using something else, which might be part of the problem.

And I get nagged by the operating system in multiple different ways (system dialogs, notifications, opening a new file type, ...) to switch back from Chrome.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#359

Post by momo_hn2025 »

manquer wrote: post #110
ronnier wrote: post #103

It’s a big world. Does breaking up google give the Asian giants an advantage? Wonder if China breaks up their large tech companies?

Advantage where ? Chinese tech companies are not competing outside China with one notable exception of TikTok (1) . Global tech companies do not compete in China, the market is brutal for non Chinese companies with level of espionage, theft, sabotage that is allowed. It is really small world for big tech, the same 5-10 companies dominate most of the world in most frequently used consumer products, and using that domi…

Your words made me picture a typical American tech worker: 1.Bashes China with zero facts or sources, parroting English journalists who can’t read Chinese or grasp its nuances. 2.Lacks historical knowledge and critical thinking, clinging to a Hollywood mindset—quick to label, slow to question. 3.Worships the CIA and FBI, swallowing their propaganda while ignoring the obvious: they’re the dark forces wrecking the world 24/7.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#360

Post by dfabulich »

kweingar wrote: post #320

Here's something I don't understand. If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS, you open Settings, tap Safari, tap Search Engine, and tap your preferred search engine. Not many users do this, and the conclusion is that the default has an unfair advantage. If you want to make Chrome your desktop browser, you open the default browser, search for Chrome, click the correct result, download the installer,…

It's a common misconception that tons of users manually install Chrome, but Google just pays PC makers to make Chrome the default browser.

Chrome is the only browser with a business model that makes sense to do this. Microsoft just doesn't make enough money from Bing/Edge to pay PC makers to leave Edge as the default. Firefox makes no money at all, and makes 95% of its revenue from Google's payments to be the default search engine. Safari isn't even available on Windows, and even then, 99% of Safari's revenue is from Google.

(Safari was available on Windows from 2007-2012, but it never captured much market share, because Apple was never willing to pay PC makers to make Safari the default.)

Here's StatCounter's estimates of desktop browser market share. The overwhelming majority of users are using their computer's default browser.

https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...

    Chrome: 65.55%
    Edge: 13.9%
    Safari: 8.69%
    Firefox: 6.36%
    Opera: 2.9%
FWIW, I don't think it makes any sense at all to sell off Chrome. Google could probably sell off YouTube, AdSense, and Google Cloud, but not Chrome.

The only viable business model for a web browser, the one that literally all major browsers use, is to accept money from a search engine (Google, specifically) to be make them the default. Even Kagi makes its own Orion web browser, for exactly this reason.

How could Chrome make its owner any money at all if Chrome couldn't accept money from Google to be the default search engine? How could Chrome possibly do what Firefox and Safari can't?

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