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The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#311

Post by cavisne »

maxclark wrote: post #132

First I don't believe this is an effective remedy to break up a Google monopoly, but I have no influence on the DOJ. I'm curious though, if Google can no longer pay browsers for search engine traffic what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? What happens to all the applications that rely on Chrome…

Chrome could probably make a huge amount of money by doing what people assume Google does but actually doesn't - selling users browsing history.

Google uses a complex anonymization/privacy framework to collect some aggregate signals from website visits, but they don't use it directly.

Regulators don't understand this, and technologists who do tend to distrust Google anyway and think they might secretly be using it.

There are all sort so other sketchy things, like what Edge does injecting itself into websites so Microsoft collects affiliate revenue.

There are countries where this wouldn't be allowed, but Google is largely self regulating in its biggest market.

All this would lose Chrome some market share but they are starting from a very dominant position, and for the general public it wouldnt be a big deal - people are already convinced that iOS and android devices are listening to them at all times for ad targeting!

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#312

Post by [deleted] »

theptip wrote: post #160
user3939382 wrote: post #134

If you look carefully at the Chromium project, it’s made up of teams that specialize in different components. The majority of the members of those teams are in turn Google employees. Presumably they have the best qualifications to be on those teams. I don’t see how a DOJ decision against Google would change any of that. Ban Google employees from participating in the project? And then who would replace them?

But we are not discussing Chromium. Google’s browser is Chrome, and that product has search exclusivity deals that have been deemed monopolistic. Google could divest the Chrome product and keep contributing to Chromium, but the value proposition is really unclear when that OSS investment doesn’t buy you billions of dollars of browser lock-in value.

[deleted]

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#313

Post by john_the_writer »

notatoad wrote: post #264
maxclark wrote: post #132

First I don't believe this is an effective remedy to break up a Google monopoly, but I have no influence on the DOJ. I'm curious though, if Google can no longer pay browsers for search engine traffic what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? What happens to all the applications that rely on Chrome…

in a simple world, a web browser is a tool that is used by an end-user, and so end-users should be the ones paying for it. whether that's directly as paid software, or indirectly as part of purchasing a device that has the software installed on it.

gha.. Another subscription based app. I can see it now: 2.99/month.

Also we already have browsers pre-installed. Safari and IE(or what ever it's called these days)

There's no call to advance these though. Chrome has profiles. That alone makes it a winner for my use case.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#314

Post by john_the_writer »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #261
maxclark wrote: post #132

First I don't believe this is an effective remedy to break up a Google monopoly, but I have no influence on the DOJ. I'm curious though, if Google can no longer pay browsers for search engine traffic what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? What happens to all the applications that rely on Chrome…

> what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? Imagine buying a browser

I imagine paying a monthly subscription to a browser company. Browser365 anyone?

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#315

Post by cowl »

hysan wrote: post #236
maxclark wrote: post #132

First I don't believe this is an effective remedy to break up a Google monopoly, but I have no influence on the DOJ. I'm curious though, if Google can no longer pay browsers for search engine traffic what is the business model that will sustain development and advancement in the space? How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? What happens to all the applications that rely on Chrome…

> How does a non Google owned Chrome support itself and continue development? Possibly by trying to find a business model that can support Chrome development just like all other Chromium (and non-Chromium) based browsers? As much as I loved Chrome when it first came out, I’ve also been well aware that Google’s backing of Chrome (and Chromium) has given it undue advantages in the browser market by effectively making e…

we will end up again with edge being dominant just because it's the default one installed by Windows.

what you say is nice in theory but you already have the Microsoft backed Edge and Apple backed Safari that are not hamppered by the "need to find a support model" and "not be a loss leader"

And I am not looking forward again to a world where Microsoft disctates web development because for all privacy problems peaople have or think to have with Google, Microsoft ha proven that does way worse and doesn't even care for the image.

All in All Chrome being a loss leader backed by Google has been a good thing for all involved. Developers, Users and 3-rd parties. without it you woudn't have all those 3rd party chrome based browsers.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#317

Post by john_the_writer »

mmphosis wrote: post #285
dehrmann wrote: post #206

Who would even buy Chrome? No one's building new browsers, and MS even walked away from the browser game. Mozilla and Firefox haven't been relevant for a decade. The only buyer I can see is private equity, and that's sort of the big boy version of buying an abandoned browser plugin so it can track you and show more ads.

No one's building new browsers Ladybird, servo, and Flow are new browsers currently being built. These new browsers are not derived from any of the big three browser engines: Google Chromium, Apple WebKit, and Mozilla Gecko. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines

Sure, but their standards, and what they support aren't even something you can look up. As a JS dev these are the stuff of nightmares.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#318

Post by alwayslikethis »

If Google sells Chrome keeps control over Chromium, I don't see this benefiting users. They'll continue with their anti-user efforts (Manifest V2 phaseout, Web Integrity), and the only difference is that the new Chrome will come with a new set of spyware, probably a worse one than Google because no one is in as good of a position to benefit from the lock-in as Google does, so they have to be more aggressive with their monetization, like with ads inserted into pages.

But at the same time maintaining Chromium is a pretty thankless endeavor and I don't see any entity with that capability. It's much bigger than Linux, and the developers are employees, not volunteers.

The best possible outcome I can imagine is if Google is required to spin off Chromium into a nonprofit that would be independent but they are required to fund it for many years. The nonprofit would need some kind of oversight from adversarial companies to avoid collusion with Google or any other company.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#319

Post by alwayslikethis »

asdfman123 wrote: post #163

At this point, tech's major competitors are overseas. Never thought I'd be making this argument, but does breaking up the search monopoly help America or up and comers?

The main benefit of having US monopolies is the spying capabilities that it enables. No other country ever had such a global surveillance network.

For the average American, both the efficient parts of monopolies (reduced redundancy which means fewer well-paying jobs) as well as the inefficient parts (reduced competition, higher prices, reduced standards of living) are net negatives. The political influence inherent to monopolies are also a negative effect on democracy, whereas foreign monopolies tend to have a harder time maintaining political influence.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#320

Post by kweingar »

Here's something I don't understand.

If you want to switch your search engine for Safari on iOS, you open Settings, tap Safari, tap Search Engine, and tap your preferred search engine. Not many users do this, and the conclusion is that the default has an unfair advantage.

If you want to make Chrome your desktop browser, you open the default browser, search for Chrome, click the correct result, download the installer, run the installer, open Chrome, and set it as the default browser. So many users do this that people conclude Chrome has an unfair advantage.

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