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How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

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Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#51

Post by gmane »

jorvi wrote: post #47
gmane wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is truly a wild place. You can say something like "We shouldn't do mandatory paternity tests at birth because they bring no benefit to the child" and someone responds with "So you're saying we shouldn't stop wife beaters?" No bitch, that's a whole different sentence. What the fuck are you talking about.

A stronger argument in line with the "benefit of the child" thinking would be that slight domestic violence should no longer be grounds for divorce since divorce rarely benefits the child. Which is obviously a crazy line of thinking, but so is "let's force a man to (financially) raise a child that isn't his".

That’s not even my argument though? I was very clear that specifically immediately post birth is a high risk time and that mandatory paternity tests at birth increase those risks with little to no benefit to anyone. I did not say anything about forcing a man to raise a child.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#52

Post by gmane »

gggtttkkk88 wrote: post #46
gmane wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is truly a wild place. You can say something like "We shouldn't do mandatory paternity tests at birth because they bring no benefit to the child" and someone responds with "So you're saying we shouldn't stop wife beaters?" No bitch, that's a whole different sentence. What the fuck are you talking about.

No chance, bucko. The essence of your comment is that paternity testing should be avoided because there is no benefit to children and there is potential harm to women. Your focus was not on the mandatory nature of any such testing. And I believe you understand my analogy in spite of your faux confusion and outrage.

That’s not even my argument though? I was very clear that specifically immediately post birth is a high risk time and that mandatory paternity tests at birth increase those risks with little to no benefit to anyone. I did not say anything about forcing a man to raise a child. You’re deliberately misreading my point to argue against a straw man.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#53

Post by zombot »

123yawaworht456 wrote: post #36
zombot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be normal, but is it productive? What will you do? Stop loving your child, punish the mother? You may be better off not knowing the answer and being OK with that.

there's a four letter word to describe this mentality. I'm not going to say it, but you know what it is.

As a matter of fact, I don't. Spell it out if you dare.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#54

Post by benterix »

123yawaworht456 wrote: post #45
mg794613 wrote: post #7

The language usage is a bit weird. It seems that caring at all if your child is yours is "obsession" and "fixation". Quite judgemental word choice for something rather normal.

to those people, "normal" is abhorrent. desiring normalcy means you are a (insert an appropriate accusatory pejorative). expressing opposition to any degenerate behavior inevitably draws ire from the bourgeois folx.

I understand what you mean but there are multiple issues with that statement: it assumes there is a homogenous group of "those people", that they all react in this way (I find this vocal always-offended-by-anything minority equally irritating), that "normalcy" is something defined or even defineable, and that it is static.

These all are important issues but need e very balanced approach. Skewing things both left and right will have negative consequences to the society as a whole.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#55

Post by benterix »

thefz wrote: post #49
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the modern world, I don't see how one can be obsessed about such a thing... Theres no obsession here, the author was being needlessly hyperbolical to twist the narrative as if the normal behavior of thinking about paternity makes one "obsessive". The way he phrased it makes it sound like it's normal for the paternal side not to care if he's raising his own kin or not. >Do a DNA test, get answer. Obsession over. D…

> DAN tests without your partner's consent or a court order, are not legal in several countries, like France for example. I want to know the rationale behind this but I'm quite sure it's some "but think of the kiiids" catholic rhetoric.

It is. But obviously people do it anyway:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/french-men-s-insecurity-over...

The only problem is, after you've done it, and it turns out the child is not yours, you have two problems.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#56

Post by ttyprintk »

tetris11 wrote: post #38
ttyprintk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that answers my questions about how pedigrees were preprocessed for a study like this: 1. Isn’t there a very high chance any particular male’s result is true for both father and uncle? 2. For young teen mothers, sometimes a family of older mother and two assumed siblings is really grandmother, mother, child. Paternity and slightly maternity are secretly, generationally obscured. So two assumed female siblings…

It's been a while and I was always a bit shaky on the actual genetics, so hopefully an actual expert can weigh in here, but as far as I remember - For 1 it depends on the penetrance model (a score on whether all individuals with the disease allele(s) express the disease phenotype: 1=all, 0.5=some, etc.) along with whether the allele's mode of inheritance is recessive/dominant, X-linked or not, and how consanguineous/…

Awesome, I appreciate that. Ok so my question for the researcher would be:

1. Circumstances where both mtDNA and Y chromosome are shared between biological father and pedigreed father. I think the Biblical term is Levirate marriage.

2. Circumstances without Y where maternity is secretly disputable and paternity uncontentious. I think the researcher called this secret adoption.

At distances longer than several generations, is there noise in the measure of autosomal matches such that you cannot detect these?

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#57

Post by benterix »

zombot wrote: post #25
mg794613 wrote: post #7

The language usage is a bit weird. It seems that caring at all if your child is yours is "obsession" and "fixation". Quite judgemental word choice for something rather normal.

It may be normal, but is it productive? What will you do? Stop loving your child, punish the mother? You may be better off not knowing the answer and being OK with that.

I can't imagine stopping loving the child, even if it's not "mine" because the nature of fatherly love is more based on a common bond that starts from zero and rises slowly, developing more once the child starts speaking and they can have a more meaningful relationship.

As for your partner, the State saying you cannot verify whether they have been cheating to you or not is a huge step in the wrong direction. because you can easily check it anyway, but you can not use this knowledge to assert your rights.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#58

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

zombot wrote: post #53
123yawaworht456 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a four letter word to describe this mentality. I'm not going to say it, but you know what it is.

As a matter of fact, I don't. Spell it out if you dare.

it's "cuck".

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#59

Post by Two4 »

failingslowly wrote: post #37
mg794613 wrote: post #7

The language usage is a bit weird. It seems that caring at all if your child is yours is "obsession" and "fixation". Quite judgemental word choice for something rather normal.

I agree with you. The article also attempts to minimize the importance of the issue, saying "stop panicking [...] it’s not the problem you think it is". Let's assume that their figure of 1% is correct. In the UK in 2021 alone there were 694,685 live births according to Google. That means in one year alone nearly 7,000 children were from "EPP". That's an enormous number of people, mostly men, potentially wrongly pursu…

In the grand scheme of all social issues the UK is beset with, this is small potatoes. It's not hugely important, it's just hugely important to you because it's an emotional issue.

Re: How often are children genetically unrelated to their presumed fathers?

#60

Post by crossroadsguy »

failingslowly wrote: post #37
mg794613 wrote: post #7

The language usage is a bit weird. It seems that caring at all if your child is yours is "obsession" and "fixation". Quite judgemental word choice for something rather normal.

I agree with you. The article also attempts to minimize the importance of the issue, saying "stop panicking [...] it’s not the problem you think it is". Let's assume that their figure of 1% is correct. In the UK in 2021 alone there were 694,685 live births according to Google. That means in one year alone nearly 7,000 children were from "EPP". That's an enormous number of people, mostly men, potentially wrongly pursu…

In some countries even if the child is biologically not yours you are still supposed to foot the bills.
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