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Buy European Made. Support European Values

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Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#251

Post by FirmwareBurner »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #188
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is everyone is forced to donate whether they like it or not. It's not something people get to vote for.

There will never be a perfect direct democracy but a lot of Europe is pretty good on the democracy index. Of course things could always be better and there are always worries of regression but it's been my experience that I've felt decently represented; I've spoken with my representatives, I've felt heard and I've felt that my views were reflected in debates at the highest levels.

> I've felt decently represented

I don't. Unfortunately I don't get a voice.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#253

Post by attendant3446 »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #247
attendant3446 wrote: post #241

I don't see the point. Why should it be European (or American, Japanese, Chinese or whatever)? Shouldn't it be better value/quality? Not everything is better just because it's European. I believe that if someone is doing something great (incl. privacy policy, support, etc.) it shouldn't matter if it's European or from somewhere else. I live in the EU and I often see this cult of people deliberately buying worse thing…

Have you ever heard the term voting with your wallet? Well, you're not only voting for the company whose product you're buying, you're also enriching the country that houses them. People in Europe are increasingly worried about hostility from the US and many people are rapidly trying to reduce their support for and reliance on the ruling regime.

I understand that. But I also think that manufacturers in Europe should do better and not just try to survive on patriotism.

Better products == better sales. After all, we live in a capitalist world.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#254

Post by throwaway494932 »

sras-me wrote: post #206
lpcvoid wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a donation towards the greater good of Europe, so up to a certain amount I am absolutely for it. I have no say in taxation in the first place (well, indirectly through voting, but you know what I mean). 60% is excessive though, and would make it impossible for people to pay bills. That's detrimental for the future of Europe :)

Ok, now let us also take into account that as this conflict continue, the chance of a nuclear escalation goes up, day by day. Would you still support to fund this and make this conflict go on and on, possibly until someone becomes so desperate that they do something stupid?

Half of the sons, daughters, and mistresses of Russian leadership and their plutocratic friends enjoy vacationing or living in western Europe, so they will probably replace Putin with somebody else or let Russia lose and run away with their pockets full of money before letting any nuke fly.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#255

Post by FirmwareBurner »

amarcheschi wrote: post #105
johngladtj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Promoting peace and democracy? By arresting politicians opposed to them and funding and supporting wars?

I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the existence of peace and democracy. For the war part, it kinda tickles your butt having a war on your neighbor's garden, I see nothing wrong with supporting such a war (on Ukraine side's, of course)

>I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia.

You mean just like politicians from Austria and Germany who were Putin's lobbying arm in Europe, then took jobs at Russian oil and gas companies when their political careers ended? Why didn't they get arrested too?

>Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the existence of peace and democracy.

And who gets to decides who are those "violators of democracy" when they're popular with the voters? The current corrupt Romanian government with vested interest to stay in power and keep competitors away from challenging the status quo? Because in the case of Georgescu the intelligence agencies making the claims about his connections to Russia have not provided no such evidence to the public. So how do you know that their assessment is truthful? Because the government would never ever lie to you right? Right? Sorry, but "trust me bro, he's guilty" from the Romanian authorities doesn't fly with me. Otherwise JD Vance wouldn't have pointed it out if he were a Russian trojan horse.

>For the war part, it kinda tickles your butt having a war on your neighbor's garden, I see nothing wrong with supporting such a war (on Ukraine side's, of course)

I have a problem when the war gets too expensive and no progress gets made. Biden and EU kept doing this for 3 years already. We're just funneling endless taxpayer money into a black hole at this point while more Ukrainians keep dying. Ending this conflict peacefully ASAP through negotiations and concessions is the way to go. This isn't fighting Gaza or Iraq. You can't win a conflict against a nuclear superpower via conventional means.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#256

Post by AlecSchueler »

attendant3446 wrote: post #253
AlecSchueler wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever heard the term voting with your wallet? Well, you're not only voting for the company whose product you're buying, you're also enriching the country that houses them. People in Europe are increasingly worried about hostility from the US and many people are rapidly trying to reduce their support for and reliance on the ruling regime.

I understand that. But I also think that manufacturers in Europe should do better and not just try to survive on patriotism. Better products == better sales. After all, we live in a capitalist world.

I don't necessarily agree that better products sell the best. Better marketing, better sales, that's the capitalism I know, and European companies would do well to cash in on this generational marketing opportunity.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#257

Post by AlecSchueler »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #251
AlecSchueler wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will never be a perfect direct democracy but a lot of Europe is pretty good on the democracy index. Of course things could always be better and there are always worries of regression but it's been my experience that I've felt decently represented; I've spoken with my representatives, I've felt heard and I've felt that my views were reflected in debates at the highest levels.

> I've felt decently represented I don't. Unfortunately I don't get a voice.

Why not? I've had direct contact with not only my own representatives on the local, national and European level, but also with members who didn't represent me directly but who nonetheless provided open ears to my issues. I have been able to vote for all three since I turned 18, as well as in various other referenda. Where are you, and what is different about your situation that you are denied this?

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#258

Post by tm-infringement »

sras-me wrote: post #161
lpcvoid wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am willing to give 1% indefinitely (that's how much I currently donate monthly) until Ukraine is a free nation.

Fair enough. I suppose it is your decision to donate 1%. But would you like your president to make that decision for you? Would it be okay with it you if they asked you to sacrifice like 60% of your pay towards this cause, that too indefinitely?

"HN discovers the concept of taxes, gets mad about it."

With that kind of argument sewers are also clearly unconscionable, after all they cost money you didn't donate. In that hyperbolic case where the EU throws 60% of it's productivity for the war effort, Ukraine would win in 6 months. That's an absurd amount of equipment, and more importantly with that kind of money you can set up a foreign legion that would vacuum every half-decent soldier without better prospects from Ethiopia to Perú. This will not happen of course, a wartime economy is not necessary to retake the invaded territories. The "WW3 totally gonna happen guys!!!11" is also exasperating, no, nothing is gonna be nuked unless someone attacks Moscow, which also will not happen.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#259

Post by dang »

benterix wrote: post #146

What is funny (or sad) is that this submission is now flagged. A list with very interesting tech entries (I had no idea Poland had an actual RAM/storage factory, not just distribution).

Users usually typically flag advocacy/rallying posts on HN, especially if they make the frontpage. It doesn't have to do with the specific cause being advocated. It's because they're off topic on HN since they don't primarily appeal to intellectual curiosity. We also tend to ban such sites, for the same reason.

This has been the case for many years, and it isn't a judgment on either the site or the cause—it's just about the scope of this forum.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#260

Post by FirmwareBurner »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #257
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've felt decently represented I don't. Unfortunately I don't get a voice.

Why not? I've had direct contact with not only my own representatives on the local, national and European level, but also with members who didn't represent me directly but who nonetheless provided open ears to my issues. I have been able to vote for all three since I turned 18, as well as in various other referenda. Where are you, and what is different about your situation that you are denied this?

Because the parties I support are not left wing or far-left wing. So it gets called Nazis and ignored even though it gets a lot of support, but because it doesn't align with the mainstream narrative of mass media and governments and challenges the existing status quo.
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