Beautiful keyboard. Great write-up.
I would buy one at a premium price point, if you’re interested in a market data point.
Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
151–160 of 259 posts
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#152This is the keyboard I’ve been hoping Apple would make for years! I’ve currently got a UHK 60 but would probably switch to this if I could buy it. Especially if it had the standard Apple keyboard layout so my fingers don’t need to relearn things like arrow keys and cmd like when I switch between the UHK and MacBook keyboard.
Me too. Low-profile is nicer to joints in the long run, and also makes me type faster due to low-travel switches. Bonus points if it has a little bit of negative tilt.
In this regard, I found Microsoft Sculpt really good because it ticked all ergonomic boxes but it didn't require relearning. However, quality was a bit subpar, it didn't offer a wired option, and it has been discontinued. The entire lineup was actually sold to Incase, who are releasing it again soon.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#153I like your design choices.
Putting the micro-controllers at the far ends means the rest of the board can be lower, meaning less need for palm supports. Also I like you NOT having OLED screens - they're toys at best and one more thing to break at worse.
As for Ortho VS Staggered, ortho has the great advantage of things like WASD just being usable out of the box, and also flexibility with things like numpad layers. I've printed paper cut outs of things like the ferris sweep to see if pinky stagger would be comfortable for me, and the answer was negative. Probably very hand dependent.
Curious why aluminium and not steel? Steel is a heavier, and also has less of that pingy noise, though I have no idea about machining so perhaps it's a no go.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#154Personal opinion, but I really don’t get low-profile keyboards. I always need a foam cushion for my palms, which means that a normal profile always feels best for me. Low feels too low with a cushion, and yet still feels too high without one.
I like low-profile in theory, but in practices there's so many high quality mx profile switches, and everything in low-profile land seems a bit substandard. I can't go back to unlubed linears, or scratchy brown clones.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pain indeed. I tried an ortho layout a few weeks ago on a split Corne and developed really bad wrist pain. No idea why, but it went away after reverting to a stagger and giving that hand a break
I’m personally not convinced by the theory of ortho. It seems to stem from the idea that stagger is a hangover from the typewriter, in which it was required to make room for the mechanics, and that if we didn’t need to make them like that, we wouldn’t have. Hence the keys should be lined up so your fingers just move up and down. However I think this has 2 problems. 1) Most ortho keyboards have 5 columns for 4 fingers…
If you think about regular keyboard stagger though, your fingers are always going towards the top left. It's not uniform.
So if this sort of stagger is good, do we want top left stagger on one side, and top right stagger on the other?
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#156OP, congrats on the product and effort. _NOTHING_ beats prototyping and building. For other split-mechanical keyboards check out: ZSA Voyager Moergo Glove 80
I have the ZSA Moonlander and absolutely love it! Definitely recommend it!
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#157Fantastic write up and beautiful design decisions. Really remarkable work! As another market data point, I would definitely pay a premium price if you were to go to market with it.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#158The grid layout makes this look so futuristic (and anime [1]). It looks very cool, though I wonder how long it'd take to get used to one, having only ever typed on staggered layouts. [1] https://gifer.com/es/BFCV
Took a few weeks to get used to, but I love it now (Planck), and I'm just as fast, if not a bit faster, than on my laptop keyboard. It's also much easier for me to use my right small finger to hit P than it is on a "normal" keyboard.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#159Criticism: - Non-standard layout - Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block? - Non-staggered keys makes it hard to type due to mistyping on the wrong row Questions: - Do you have nkey rollover? - Would you accept "optional" wires? Note: gaming requires fast response times. Hell even programming/writing sucks when there's key lag.
The trade off you make with these keyboards is that you have to learn a different muscle memory, in return for less finger contortions, more comfort, and less hand waving around the keyboard.
If that's not appealing to you, there's probably no reason to get into it. If it is appealing to you to live mostly on your homerow, then the learning curve is not all that great, maybe a couple of months.
Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pain indeed. I tried an ortho layout a few weeks ago on a split Corne and developed really bad wrist pain. No idea why, but it went away after reverting to a stagger and giving that hand a break
I’m personally not convinced by the theory of ortho. It seems to stem from the idea that stagger is a hangover from the typewriter, in which it was required to make room for the mechanics, and that if we didn’t need to make them like that, we wouldn’t have. Hence the keys should be lined up so your fingers just move up and down. However I think this has 2 problems. 1) Most ortho keyboards have 5 columns for 4 fingers…
Vertical stagger is where it's at. Shifting key height per column put keeping columns straight.
The comfortable level of stagger is individual. I just can't with ortho but I guess it's a good fit for some folks' hands. For most of us, middle finger rests comfortably in a higher spot than pinky does. Just look at your hand. You won't really know until you try yourself.