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Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

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Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#21

Post by foldr »

hot_gril wrote: post #17
whalesalad wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at this point is there any reason to use xb360 hardware? emulation on modern hardware has gotta be substantially better

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC. They're slow, glitchy, and/or hard to set up. Related to what the other commenter said, anyone who says these are good must have a lot of time to deal with it, whereas I just want the equivalent of sticking the disc into the console. GameCube is the newest thing I've had a decent experience emulating, and even that isn't 100% unless it's Melee…

An Xbox Series S does a fine job of playing Xbox 360 games and doesn't cost much.

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#22

Post by itishappy »

foldr wrote: post #21
hot_gril wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC. They're slow, glitchy, and/or hard to set up. Related to what the other commenter said, anyone who says these are good must have a lot of time to deal with it, whereas I just want the equivalent of sticking the disc into the console. GameCube is the newest thing I've had a decent experience emulating, and even that isn't 100% unless it's Melee…

An Xbox Series S does a fine job of playing Xbox 360 games and doesn't cost much.

> There are 632 games that have been made backward compatible out of 2,155 that have been released for Xbox 360.

It's also going to struggle without a disk drive to play my physical collection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_backward-compatible_ga...

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#23

Post by KeplerBoy »

hot_gril wrote: post #17
whalesalad wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at this point is there any reason to use xb360 hardware? emulation on modern hardware has gotta be substantially better

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC. They're slow, glitchy, and/or hard to set up. Related to what the other commenter said, anyone who says these are good must have a lot of time to deal with it, whereas I just want the equivalent of sticking the disc into the console. GameCube is the newest thing I've had a decent experience emulating, and even that isn't 100% unless it's Melee…

If you want to emulate a current console, try emulating the switch. I haven't looked into it much, but apparently it works better on modern hardware than on the switch itself. Not surprising given the switch aging hardware and power limit.

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#24

Post by com2kid »

hot_gril wrote: post #17
whalesalad wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at this point is there any reason to use xb360 hardware? emulation on modern hardware has gotta be substantially better

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC. They're slow, glitchy, and/or hard to set up. Related to what the other commenter said, anyone who says these are good must have a lot of time to deal with it, whereas I just want the equivalent of sticking the disc into the console. GameCube is the newest thing I've had a decent experience emulating, and even that isn't 100% unless it's Melee…

> Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC.

This is unfortunate as a decade ago Microsoft had an internal emulator for Xbox 360 that ran at near native speed.

I am curious if that emulator is what it used to play Xbox360 games on newer x64 based Xbox models, or if they are using a different code base.

Either way, technically it is possible for the experience to be good!

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#25

Post by mschuster91 »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #23
hot_gril wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xbox 360 and PS3 emulators are still borderline unusable on my new-ish PC. They're slow, glitchy, and/or hard to set up. Related to what the other commenter said, anyone who says these are good must have a lot of time to deal with it, whereas I just want the equivalent of sticking the disc into the console. GameCube is the newest thing I've had a decent experience emulating, and even that isn't 100% unless it's Melee…

If you want to emulate a current console, try emulating the switch. I haven't looked into it much, but apparently it works better on modern hardware than on the switch itself. Not surprising given the switch aging hardware and power limit.

The Switch is a mainstream-ish ARM system. IIRC it maps really well to Apple's M system.

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#26

Post by mschuster91 »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #11
hot_gril wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the people who hack 360s also know how to prevent them from inevitably red-ringing? Cause that's the biggest thing discouraging me from buying another (my other 2 went red).

The red ring is caused by underfill that is too soft that let's the solder bumps break. It's a BGA packaging problem and there's no fix.

It's the same issue that was behind NVDAs "soldergate" fuck-up that ended up permanently souring the relationship between them and Apple.

The core is EU's regulation on lead free solder, which led to a number of people finding out that thermal cycling on the solder led to thermal stresses. Workarounds were identified and any solder formulations since then don't suffer from that issue, so the fix is a complete re-balling of affected chips... a work not for those faint of heart.

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#27

Post by [deleted] »

mouse_ wrote: post #13
whalesalad wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at this point is there any reason to use xb360 hardware? emulation on modern hardware has gotta be substantially better

Xbox 360 emulation is still really bad for most games, despite what some YouTubers would have you believe. But let's say in a few years it does become substantially better. There's still: • Nostalgia • Authenticity • Compatibility • Preservation • Cost of entry Even if 360 emulation does become practical, a 360 will still be cheaper than any gaming PC capable of playing those games.

[deleted]

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#28

Post by mulmen »

mschuster91 wrote: post #26
throwaway48476 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The red ring is caused by underfill that is too soft that let's the solder bumps break. It's a BGA packaging problem and there's no fix.

It's the same issue that was behind NVDAs "soldergate" fuck-up that ended up permanently souring the relationship between them and Apple. The core is EU's regulation on lead free solder, which led to a number of people finding out that thermal cycling on the solder led to thermal stresses. Workarounds were identified and any solder formulations since then don't suffer from that issue, so the fix is a complete re-ball…

Sounds like a R&D problem. Why the dig at the EU?

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#29

Post by deaddodo »

pogue wrote: post #6
hot_gril wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the people who hack 360s also know how to prevent them from inevitably red-ringing? Cause that's the biggest thing discouraging me from buying another (my other 2 went red).

Not every model of the 360 will inevitably red ring. Those were typically only the "fat" models and there are some fixes to prevent it from happening. It usually just involves changing to some better quality thermal paste & reflowing the board. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Xbox+360+Red+Ring+of+Death+Fix+...

The problem is internal to the CPU packaging, there isn’t a way to fix it externally. Later 65nm (both GPU/CPU) it’s almost a non-issue, but any others will almost definitely red ring at some point, all you can do is delay the inevitable.

Re: Hacking the Xbox 360 Hypervisor Part 2: The Bad Update Exploit

#30

Post by hot_gril »

mschuster91 wrote: post #25
KeplerBoy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to emulate a current console, try emulating the switch. I haven't looked into it much, but apparently it works better on modern hardware than on the switch itself. Not surprising given the switch aging hardware and power limit.

The Switch is a mainstream-ish ARM system. IIRC it maps really well to Apple's M system.

But the supposedly working Switch emulators only have experimental Mac support at best. Also idk if the CPU arch is really the hard part in general... we never got an Xbox 360 emulator for PPC Mac ;)
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