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Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

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Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#141

Post by vampirechicken »

paulgb wrote: post #121
hnriot wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems very naive to think that Craig gives a damn about padmapper, they (CL) have every right to license their data to whomever they want, and PM choose not to seek such a license so I seriously doubt Eric would really stand much of a chance getting a job with CL. You speak as though CL is broken, and it clearly isn't, as a marketplace it functions well. You may not like the website, but it's marketplace first,…

> You speak as though CL is broken, and it clearly isn't, as a marketplace it functions well. I'm guessing you've never had to find an apartment on Craigslist. Sifting through spam, scams, fake listings by agents, listings that have already been sold... sure, you can do it, but it's not efficient.

Clearly people are still finding value on CL. Hacker News readers are in a demographic that views the internet and the web VERY differently from how people who do not create internet services for a living view them. We care about a completely other set of factors then they do.

We don't bookmark facebook.com we rely on the browser history, having typed it in to the address bar once. They use google to search for the link to the facebook login.

They hear that CL is the biggest site for classified ads, so they post there. They don't care that padmapper will put their apartment on a map, they don't care about other sites.

CL did the hard work of attracting the people to the marketplace. Padmapper is not doing any of that hard work. It is my opinion, if you're doing the hard work of building the community and attracting the users, then you'll agree with CL on this issue. If you're a repackager, then you'll side with padmapper.

If your business idea is "Some corner of Craigs List with a better UI" then by all means, build the UI and then convince people to GIVE you their data.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#142

Post by samstave »

jeremymims wrote: post #103
crazygringo wrote: post #81

I'm always fascinated when companies make that one decision which seems to lead to their downfall -- and everyone seems to be able to see it, except the company itself. I think this is a great thing -- if Craigslist can get enough bad press from this, then maybe a movement for "free and copyable" classifieds listings can take place, and there can be competition in the space again.

Craigslist could: - kill Padmapper instantly by building a map function to view their listings. - elect not to build a map feature because they think it's trivial and they believe no one cares. So Padmapper should languish. - buy Padmapper for a little bit of money and have Eric help make their product better. - hire Eric to make their product better. - invest a little money into Padmapper as a hedge and hope it does…

He's acting like a total douchebag (Craig).

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#143

Post by Karunamon »

tomc1985 wrote: post #123
jeremyarussell wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing though, remember that old adage "The customer is always right" it means that at the end of the day, right or wrong, good or bad, allowed or not-allowed, caring or cold, sue-happy or not if the people that use the website are complaining (and so far it seems they are) than cragislist is broken, because it's leadership lost the respect of it's market. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from m…

That old adage is dead. "The customer is always right" is a prescription for terror

Agreed wholeheartedly. The customer is often wrong, stupid, and has no idea what they want.

Harsh words but they ring true.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#144

Post by icebraining »

biafra wrote: post #94
loceng wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly that's what they want to do or at least have the ability to threaten suit with this in their TOS.

And then those sites will tell CL to sue the users who entered it into their site.

Is it that simple? If the license that those sites have is invalid - and it would be - then they're committing copyright infringement, and CL has an explicit license to go after those.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#145

Post by paulgb »

nathan_long wrote: post #132
smspence wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...if she lists that couch on ebay as well she is technically in breach of craigslist's terms of service." No, I do not think that has anything to do with the new craiglist terms of service. The new terms of service just prevents other people from copying the content of the craigslist ad. So, no the hypothetical woman selling the couch would not be affected by the new terms in any way.

>> The new terms of service just prevents other people from copying the content of the craigslist ad. Um... >> the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent Where does it say anything about "other people?" I mean, I doubt Craigslist would sue an actual user for posting on EBay, but they might send EBay a takedown notice f…

Interesting point, I believe PadLister can simultaniously post to CL and PM, which may now violate this as well.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#146

Post by nacorbier »

CodeCube wrote: post #127
smspence wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...if she lists that couch on ebay as well she is technically in breach of craigslist's terms of service." No, I do not think that has anything to do with the new craiglist terms of service. The new terms of service just prevents other people from copying the content of the craigslist ad. So, no the hypothetical woman selling the couch would not be affected by the new terms in any way.

I wonder if there's a market for a rewriting service ... takes a volume of text, and rewrites it using different words so that it's the same content, but not copied.

Wouldn't that still be a derivative work? I know the AP considers it so.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#147

Post by Karunamon »

gfaigpodsfisfp wrote: post #74

Why all the hate towards Craigslist when HN is the same way? Try to delete your account. Better yet, ask PG if he will. Nope. All yer data r belong to them. Pot, meet kettle.

What data does HN keep on you? Also I fully agree with non-revocable licenses for discussion forums. Having all of someone's postings disappear because they leave in huff is damaging to the site.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#148

Post by ghshephard »

paulgb wrote: post #121
hnriot wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems very naive to think that Craig gives a damn about padmapper, they (CL) have every right to license their data to whomever they want, and PM choose not to seek such a license so I seriously doubt Eric would really stand much of a chance getting a job with CL. You speak as though CL is broken, and it clearly isn't, as a marketplace it functions well. You may not like the website, but it's marketplace first,…

> You speak as though CL is broken, and it clearly isn't, as a marketplace it functions well. I'm guessing you've never had to find an apartment on Craigslist. Sifting through spam, scams, fake listings by agents, listings that have already been sold... sure, you can do it, but it's not efficient.

Depends on the market - I understand the incentives in new york are such that scamming by agents is common, and problematic. In the Bay Area, (indeed, all of california to the best of my knowledge) - it's rare (as in, I've never heard of it happening) for a renter to pay a fee for a new rental, and so there is very little incentive to scam them. I've moved five times since 2003, every time using craigslist. If I want a graphical/map view, I just use housingmaps.com - unlike padmaps, they are simply offering a service to the user base, so, to the best of my knowledge, they've always had free access to the CL data.

I've never spent more than a week looking for a new place, and wouldn't consider using any service other than craigslist to do so.

Clearly the experience in other markets is not so positive.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#149

Post by Zimahl »

nathan_long wrote: post #132
smspence wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...if she lists that couch on ebay as well she is technically in breach of craigslist's terms of service." No, I do not think that has anything to do with the new craiglist terms of service. The new terms of service just prevents other people from copying the content of the craigslist ad. So, no the hypothetical woman selling the couch would not be affected by the new terms in any way.

>> The new terms of service just prevents other people from copying the content of the craigslist ad. Um... >> the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent Where does it say anything about "other people?" I mean, I doubt Craigslist would sue an actual user for posting on EBay, but they might send EBay a takedown notice f…

And if I wrote a piece of software that helped you post the same thing simultaneously on Craigslist and EBay, I bet they'd sue me.

That's not what this is about. CL doesn't care where you post it, or how many times you post it. CL just doesn't want others scraping their website and posting it for you. This is direct action on CL against Padmapper.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#150

Post by nacorbier »

stellar678 wrote: post #61
ralfn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a little dramatic. CL isnt popular here in Holland, but i was under the impression, it was ebay meets dating, using a 200 byte php forum file, that looked so old, you would just assume encodimg errors. Why are you getting your panties in a twist? What import role does this site play in your life or that of others?

Craigslist is gigantic in big US metro areas. It's pretty much the standard way to find a place to live, to find an employee or a job, to buy and sell used cars, etc... etc... It's also known for having 3 times higher revenue-per-employee than Google even though the vast majority of activity on the site is free.

I don't think people outside the US understand how large Craigslist is. I spend 1 hour, each work day, looking at the national OMPL gig feed after its been filtered for charity/stupidity/things I don't do, to see if I can pick up supplemental clients between larger accounts.

The amount of spam and high expectations / low financial reward is high, but a lot of my small business contracts are from Craigslist.

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