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Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

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Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#51

Post by NLips »

analog wrote: post #37
dangrossman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't protect facts with copyright anywhere, AFAIK. The listing consists of more than facts, including a descriptive title, the descriptive text of the listing, and the attached images. These are all protected. At the moment, PadMapper does not copy any of these things. It's been pointed out. Let's not rehash what's already been said ad nauseum in the PadMapper story comments and stick to discussing this submissi…

I'm not sure that a title or short description would be copyrightable "a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright" The photographs however would be covered by copyright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

I don't think that copyright for photographs would be covered by the Craigslist claim though:

'Clicking "Continue" confirms that craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.'

I have an original photo and publish it as part of a listing ('the content'). The photo is not a derivative work.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#52

Post by ralfn »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #39

Wow. Under the disguise of a pseudo-charity, Craigslist just revealed it's true intentions. They foolishly just opened themselves up to a lot of hate and possibly gave people a huge reason to try out competitors. This may be the beginning of the end of Craigslist's Empire. This is usually how it starts, users being held hostage, increased control, and decreased satisfaction with the service with no way out due to net…

Thats a little dramatic.

CL isnt popular here in Holland, but i was under the impression, it was ebay meets dating, using a 200 byte php forum file, that looked so old, you would just assume encodimg errors.

Why are you getting your panties in a twist? What import role does this site play in your life or that of others?

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#53

Post by sageikosa »

scotty79 wrote: post #35
wilfra wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might technically be true but that clearly isn't the intent here. Craigslist is not going to be suing their users for copy/pasting the same listing across multiple sites... This is clearly directed to services like Padmapper - which, by the way, I strongly support and wish Craigslist would leave TF alone.

But it will be suing those sites. So If you have a site where people can put their advertisements you better look if they haven't posted same advertisement on craigslist and when they do don't publish it on your site. Of course you can just slap the same lawyer silliness on your form and claim that you have also been given exclusive licence by your users and counter sue craigslist. I'm not sure if court is required t…

Actually, if you do the cross-posting, Craigslist would be entitled to sue you for violating their exclusivity agreement, not the other site. What this would put on a poster is the extra work to make the copyrightable content different between sites.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#54

Post by ralfn »

talaketu wrote: post #42
jc123 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to see the day when craigslist tries to sue posters for this "violation"; so effectively posters can ignore this legalese as it's targeted to give craiglist ammunition against other sites.

Probably not the best advice from a legal or ethical standpoint.

To be fair, consumer organisations here in Holland once took 25 EULA's to a judge.

Less than 1% of what was stated would ever be held up in a dutch court. Things like the concept that a company can just define their liabilty themselves. Or how they have the right to share personal data with 3rd parties. The laws can not overwritten with contracts, esspecially ones without signatures.

In essence, and this was quite funny to realize. There is no EULA that would reduce liability, or increase rights of the seller. An EULA can really only be used against the company.

Im not sure about the situation in the US. But the same should be true to some extend. EULA are fake legal documents lawyers sell as if they have any value.

Its a complete scam.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#55

Post by jahewson »

dedward wrote: post #50
analog wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that a title or short description would be copyrightable "a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright" The photographs however would be covered by copyright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Does it need ot be copyrightable in order for you to agree to contractual terms about something?

Yes, becuse if you grant someone exclusive rights then you need to possess those exclusive rights in the first place. If the material is not protectable, then you don't have any rights to grant to others.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#56

Post by icebraining »

ralfn wrote: post #54
talaketu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not the best advice from a legal or ethical standpoint.

To be fair, consumer organisations here in Holland once took 25 EULA's to a judge. Less than 1% of what was stated would ever be held up in a dutch court. Things like the concept that a company can just define their liabilty themselves. Or how they have the right to share personal data with 3rd parties. The laws can not overwritten with contracts, esspecially ones without signatures. In essence, and this was quite fu…

This is not an EULA.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#57

Post by icebraining »

jc123 wrote: post #38
dangrossman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the text. Exclusive license. That means you may not license your post to any other site; giving someone else permission to display your listing is a grant of a license, and such a license is explicitly mentioned in the terms of any UGC site, including Craigslist. The difference is those other terms always say NON-exclusive. Go ahead and stop by YouTube and do a search for the word. This isn't boilerplate legales…

Hard to see the day when craigslist tries to sue posters for this "violation"; so effectively posters can ignore this legalese as it's targeted to give craiglist ammunition against other sites.

They may not sue posters, but what if they sue the sites to where the poster voluntarily submitted copies of his post?

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#58

Post by dbecker »

ralfn wrote: post #52
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #39

Wow. Under the disguise of a pseudo-charity, Craigslist just revealed it's true intentions. They foolishly just opened themselves up to a lot of hate and possibly gave people a huge reason to try out competitors. This may be the beginning of the end of Craigslist's Empire. This is usually how it starts, users being held hostage, increased control, and decreased satisfaction with the service with no way out due to net…

Thats a little dramatic. CL isnt popular here in Holland, but i was under the impression, it was ebay meets dating, using a 200 byte php forum file, that looked so old, you would just assume encodimg errors. Why are you getting your panties in a twist? What import role does this site play in your life or that of others?

the "ebay meets dating" impression is not correct. Craigslist is closer to an "Online Classified Ads" which is popular for posting jobs, apartment rentals, cars, sporting equipment, musical instruments, and pretty much everything else you might post in a classified ad.

I'm told it is one of the 100 most popular sites on the internet (and one of the 50 most popular in the US).

One of the reasons people feel strongly about it the platform nature. If you don't like the Craigslist interface for finding apartments, you don't have much choice. That is where everyone lists their apartments. Similarly, it is the first place everyone lists apartments because it is widely known that this is where users check.

For that reason, it's been hard for competitors to get any traction... even when the competitor has better technology.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#59

Post by icebraining »

kleiba wrote: post #8
rincewind wrote: post #6

Does this license mean copyright? In Germany you cannot protect facts with copyright. Something like "Flat for rent: $size m², $price €, $coordinates, $link" seems more like a fact or an idea.

Also, in Germany you cannot give up or transfer copyright to someone else.

They aren't doing that. They're asking for an exclusive license. You retain the copyright, you just can't use it anywhere else.

Re: Craigslist now asks for exclusive license when posting

#60

Post by scotty79 »

sageikosa wrote: post #53
scotty79 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will be suing those sites. So If you have a site where people can put their advertisements you better look if they haven't posted same advertisement on craigslist and when they do don't publish it on your site. Of course you can just slap the same lawyer silliness on your form and claim that you have also been given exclusive licence by your users and counter sue craigslist. I'm not sure if court is required t…

Actually, if you do the cross-posting, Craigslist would be entitled to sue you for violating their exclusivity agreement, not the other site. What this would put on a poster is the extra work to make the copyrightable content different between sites.

I don't think any company would sue their users. PR in at least remotely sane companies trumps legal.
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