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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#471

Post by remify »

GuB-42 wrote: post #163

It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…

I think it's an offering for companies that would like to get onboard with Framework but would prefer to only have one contract / contact for their laptops and desktops.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#472

Post by mandelken »

transpute wrote: post #195
nrp wrote: post #165

I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).

Congrats on beating HP Z2 Mini G1a and Nvidia Project Digits to market with 128GB of unified memory for LLMs, with bonus Framework port flexibility and a better price than Apple equivalents. Does the desktop have a discrete physical TPM chip (needed for DRTM support on Windows/Linux/Qubes)? At present, AMD's PSP firmware emulates a "mobile" fTPM that does not support SKINIT. Would you consider a future model with AMD…

Sorry to cross your excellent questions, but it doesn’t seem they are beating HP Z2 mini G1a to market. HP announced first week of January that it will be “available in spring”, while now framework announced for Q3.

It also seems HP will use the PRO version of the chip.

Kudos to framework for announcing the price and anchoring the market though!

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#473

Post by ktallett »

brunoqc wrote: post #344
ktallett wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 12 inch is what I will be considering purchasing as I already have a 13 inch AMD that I am pretty happy with.

Would you mainly use the 12 inch one or you like having both?

I think I would primarily used the 12 inch as I don't personally find the screen space to 13 inches that significant an increase in size and I would find a benefit to having a 2 in 1 that utilises a stylus especially if it works well with Linux. I feel that form factor is better for travelling to and from work as well as on trains and planes. I am not sure if I would keep the 13 inch and use it exclusively indoors or if I will sell it.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#474

Post by panick21_ »

nrp wrote: post #165

I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).

What the status of open source firmware?

I assume you are talking to AMD about OpenSIL, are you planning on switching to Coreboot with Linuxboot?

Also, any chance delivery to Switzerland? I can't recommend it to people if they can't order it.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#475

Post by baobabKoodaa »

theossuary wrote: post #39
jackbravo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia project Digits seems to fall in a similar category, no?

It's a bit different. Digits is based on the Tegra CPU, which is an ARM chip with integrated nvidia GPU. It's nearly COTS (commercial off the shelf), but not quite. Tegra CPU support isn't in mainline linux, so you have to run their fork of Ubuntu or build your own kernel. The integrated GPU is a special class in nvidia drivers, and some things just don't work on it (they only work on a discrete GPU) for seemingly no…

Can you expand on this? If I want to run open-weight LLMs and image generation models in the next few years, how likely is it that I will be able to run the "most popular" models (whatever they will be 12 months from now) if I buy Digits?

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#476

Post by ktallett »

lawn wrote: post #125
coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

The 12-inch laptop might be interesting as a potential upgrade to my remarkable, with the obvious benefit of also being usable as a laptop. I wonder how writing on the touch screen feels?

I would expect similar to any convertible thinkpad. I personally don't mind it but due to the back light there is a gap between the end of the pen and the line which does affect the experience. If a paperlike film is produced, that would improve the situation.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#477

Post by whazor »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #464

Sad that Framework laptops are still not available in Northern Europe, but I guess having regulation that makes new and small players unfeasible is important for some reason.

Framework is available in Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. I think they are only missing Norway.

One of the issues in Europe is that each country has their own language and custom keyboard.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#478

Post by TiredOfLife »

farawayea wrote: post #437
nrp wrote: post #165

I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).

There's absolutely nothing repairable about this computer. The motherboard is the entire computer. Only the storage can be replaced. Do you plan to make computers which can actually be repaired? How exactly is the Framework Desktop any better than what Apple is doing with the Mac? I prefer to build my own machines. Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enab…

Using standard m.2 storage alone makes it 1000 times better than mac

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#479

Post by komali2 »

42772827 wrote: post #219
yellow_lead wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds misleading. The parent comment says all deliveries in Asia are limited to Taiwan. As far as I'm aware, export restrictions are only placed on certain chips going to China. How do export restrictions prevent Framework from shipping to i.e Japan?

Nothing about the current regime projects stability. Taiwan is a strategic partner and the source of many parts, so it’s essentially the only “safe bet” in Asia. When you’re a company who needs time to adapt to any change in policy (aka all of them) and a company that can’t afford fines for noncompliance (small companies like Framework) your strategy is to be as conservative as possible.

Well, they also manufacture in Taiwan. Their office was around the corner from my restaurant here, and their staff would come in frequently. When I pre-ordered a framework 13 AMD I still lived in the USA and was waitlisted. Ages later I needed my shipping address in Taiwan and they had to completely change a bunch of stuff to make it work. Initially they wanted to put me back on a waitlist but I basically begged and they made it happen. So I guess they maintain two different warehousing and logistics operations between the two countries.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#480

Post by farawayea »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #478
farawayea wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely nothing repairable about this computer. The motherboard is the entire computer. Only the storage can be replaced. Do you plan to make computers which can actually be repaired? How exactly is the Framework Desktop any better than what Apple is doing with the Mac? I prefer to build my own machines. Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enab…

Using standard m.2 storage alone makes it 1000 times better than mac

It is indeed better than the Mac. It's still 1000 times worse than a regular desktop PC which lets people swap RAM modules, the CPU, add a dGPU and so on.
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