I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).
It sounds fantastic. What are the power draw and noise profiles like? If it's noisy, are there passive cooling options?
Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
451–460 of 554 posts
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD
Yep. They could've had socketed RAM but they wouldn't have gotten the same bandwidth and that's really important for running things like LLMs.
Bandwidth to a GPU from a socketed RAM? How?
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.
I hear you: would love to see a RISC-V-based system without all the downsides to using ARM. Perhaps in another 3-5 years we'll see performance parity and it'll be viable. If we get close it certainly seems like we'll see a laptop from Framework using such a chip.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!) Nit: You can believe that story, but there's zero chance that at some point you didn't upgrade the case, motherboard, CPU and RAM possibly at the same time. If you replace 90% of what makes a computer, does it make sense to say you "never changed" it? At what point do you consider it "changed…
Hence The Ship of Theseus comment
The difference is that The Ship of Theseus had all its parts replaced one by one, in a long period of time. If you replace 90% of the ship at the same time (RAM, CPU and Motherboard), then the analogy breaks down.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
i don't know about other people's experience - but my framework with intel cpu is always running that fan relatively maxed out even when it's not doing anything. And it has massive issues staying asleep which is some sort of driver issue with Windows. But I can be an airport and all of a sudden my backpack feels like it's about to combust and i can hear my laptop fan rippin', even though it should be asleep.
Some new laptops cannot actually fully suspend to ram. It sounds crazy but I had this issue even after installing Linux on a laptop. It’s a hardware limitation. You can thank Microsoft for trying to make sure they can sneak in OS updates when you think your laptop is asleep.
By the way, how do people carry those laptops on airplanes if regulations mandate that every radio equipment must be off?
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not a framework choice, that is an AMD architecture that doesn't use regular RAM modules as it requires wider data bus
The statement above is that one would expect Framework to have chosen a platform which does not require soldered RAM, not that Framework kept such an option by choosing this AMD part. All that aside, I absolutely can't wait for desktops to decide to go the same route of having 4 memory channels instead of 2. Right now the only way to have >2 channels is to buy workstation/server class stuff or an APU.
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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
With diving board trackpads, I usually just tap to click. Physically pressing down a diving board is just asking for frustration. Sometimes I miss the separate left, right, and middle click buttons under the trackpad like the old days.
If you pretend that the click buttons are still there, you can press down a diving board just fine. You use your fingers to move, and the thumb to click. The problem is that this is totally unintuitive to anyone who grew up without visible buttons.
do people actually use their thumb to click ?? i always just used the other pointer
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#458Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#459I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).
There's absolutely nothing repairable about this computer. The motherboard is the entire computer. Only the storage can be replaced. Do you plan to make computers which can actually be repaired? How exactly is the Framework Desktop any better than what Apple is doing with the Mac? I prefer to build my own machines. Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enab…
> Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enables me to repair and upgrade my computer?
Because unified memory can't be socketed due to signal integrity issues. Framework asked AMD if there's a possibility and they investigated it, but found that it was just not possible.
I recommend watching the LinusTechTips video about the new framework products. They answered all your questions.
Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a terrible gaming PC. It’s really meant for running LLMs, the main benefit is the large amount of unified graphics memory, which is not relevant to gaming. For one thing, the price per FPS for gaming is going to be terrible. This price can get you a serious rig with much better performance. Gaming is a very specific workload that almost entirely depends on the GPU. It is hard to even purchase a CPU that perfo…
a quick search told me that this thing's GPU (8060s) is comparable to a 4070 from what i can tell, a 4070 alone is ~$750. this thing is apparently $799 for the CPU+GPU+RAM+motherboard all soldered together ($300 more for case+PSU+SSD) if the CPU+RAM+motherboard are costing me $50, i don't really care if i have to throw them out along with the GPU
I think it's equivalent to a laptop 4070, not to a desktop one.