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what is the pitch, because desktops don't have a problem with replacements, repairs etc.
Repair-friendly form factor for a "Unified Memory" platform. For $2000, you get 128 of system RAM, 96 of which is addressable as VRAM. Only ways of getting 96GB of VRAM in a desktop are to either: 1. Drop ~$5000 on a (very non-upgradeable) Mac Studio 2. Drop ~$20k on a dual RTX 6000 workstation For running local LLMs, there's nothing on the market presently even remotely like this.
It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…
I don't do much computing on the move, that my phone can't handle. But a desktop (that generally lasts twice as long as a laptop and costs half as much) is pretty interesting to me.
Also keep in mind that framework sold a small chassis compatible with their laptop boards, so if you upgrade your laptop main board you could rehost the old one in a small desktop chassis.
Seems like a natural expansion for framework and might well get them more customers and more sales per customer.
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To the best of my knowledge the ARM ecosystem is an absolute pain to work in, you can get Phone/Tablet SoCs painfully encumbered with out of date drivers and binary blobs. Or you can get enormous server processors that will cost $1000+. There just isn't much that's suitable for making a desktop or laptop that would meet Frameworks markets expectations.
what about the Snapdragon? Microsoft is using in their ARM laptops
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That is not a framework choice, that is an AMD architecture that doesn't use regular RAM modules as it requires wider data bus
The statement above is that one would expect Framework to have chosen a platform which does not require soldered RAM, not that Framework kept such an option by choosing this AMD part. All that aside, I absolutely can't wait for desktops to decide to go the same route of having 4 memory channels instead of 2. Right now the only way to have >2 channels is to buy workstation/server class stuff or an APU.
BTW, careful with "channels". Todays normal desktops and laptops (besides the strix halo and apple pro/max/ultra) are 128 bits wide. But in the DDR4 -> DDR5 transition they doubled the number of channels to 4. However the strix halo biggest advantage is the extra memory bandwidth going from 128 bits wide to 256 bits wide.
Finally the technology of the ps5 and XboxX comes to laptops, tablets, and small desktops.
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That is not a framework choice, that is an AMD architecture that doesn't use regular RAM modules as it requires wider data bus
The architecture was their choice. It's completely possible to build a PC with that form factor which does not have soldered RAM, so it's strange that they went with it. Their brand with laptops is supposed to be 'more repairable' but they've chosen to make a desktop PC that's less repairable than their laptops are? It doesn't make any sense with the rest of their lineup. The person who would want this product is the…
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That is not a framework choice, that is an AMD architecture that doesn't use regular RAM modules as it requires wider data bus
I don't know anything about RAMs or their bus size. Is this something that will be "fixed" in the future, idk, with DDR6? Meaning we can have replacable RAM with such bus.
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That is not a framework choice, that is an AMD architecture that doesn't use regular RAM modules as it requires wider data bus
I don't know anything about RAMs or their bus size. Is this something that will be "fixed" in the future, idk, with DDR6? Meaning we can have replacable RAM with such bus.
So to ensure 256 bits @ 8000 MHz works well AMD did it in the same package. In theory they could A) ship a halo without ram B) design a new socket, C) allow motherboard makers to pick 2 x CUDIMMs or 4x DDR5 dimms. Not sure that would buy them much market though.
As apple and others have proved, not many care about replaceable dimms, especially if it gives them 2-3x the performance and/or better perf/watt.
I’m happy to answer questions folks have on the Framework Desktop (though probably not until later today).
#1. Any insight into the 4x PCIe slot not having the end of the slot open which would allow the user to still physically insert 8x or 16x PCIe cards?
#2. Considering a lot of people would use the desktop with ethernet, is the wifi m.2 slot keyed to only accept wifi cards or can it fit a 3rd NVMe SSD as well? (maybe an idea to also pass along to the RISC-V mainboard guys)
#3. Lastly, any chance of revisiting the possibility of upgradable RAM on future desktop models i.e. Zen6 "big APU" if CAMM modules and the like aren't so bleeding edge? (it's looking like DDR6 for example might be CAMM-only) I mean, the fact that CAMM modules lay flat would open the opportunity to have them placed directly on the backside of the CPU which would theoretically result in very short trace lengths relative to front-side CAMM (let alone DIMM).
EDIT #4. Do these Ryzen Max chips support s1/s3 sleep like traditional socketable desktops? (though it sounds like it's starting to become less supported on AM5 sadly)
BONUS. Keyboard/touchpad module(s) for laptop(s) with three (left, middle, right) separate physical mouse buttons when? :P (Heck, on the 16" laptop there's already suspicious blank spaces both above and below the touchpad where they'd fit perfectly...)
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Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?
i don't know about other people's experience - but my framework with intel cpu is always running that fan relatively maxed out even when it's not doing anything. And it has massive issues staying asleep which is some sort of driver issue with Windows. But I can be an airport and all of a sudden my backpack feels like it's about to combust and i can hear my laptop fan rippin', even though it should be asleep.