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Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

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Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#81

Post by fat_cantor »

oulipo wrote: post #55
2099miles wrote: post #10

Tbh this isn’t that crazy. If you hire someone to do their job outputting 10 items per hour and that number is reasonable because a bunch of other workers you hired for the same job are doing it and 1 guy hits 1 per hour then that guys shouldn’t be doing that job. The outrage should be focused on the absolute meme of their ad video cuz they were like “lets literally have a convo with an individual but refer to them a…

The product is shit. At some point we have to put human decency first, and not lock people in AI-surveilled setups. If you're worried about some guy slacking, then hire some supervisors, ask them to chat with the employees, understand what their issues come from, if they had a rough week and they need some slack, etc. But doing it impersonally through an AI is inhumane. Imagine if you have kids and we replace all the…

Yet this is exactly how educational curricula are being developed right now - AI generates lesson plan based upon standards (easier for teachers), teacher feeds in reading assignment, etc., AI generates quiz and grades responses. Maybe there's human oversight, maybe not, but the education industry is largely embracing this AI control layer without much hesitation because it reduces cortisol for everyone except students.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#82

Post by Kye »

philipjoubert wrote: post #35

As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country and whose mother owned a clothing factory, this product seems...fine? The response is an indication of how little people know about how their t-shirts and shoes are made.

No, we know, and we're not okay with it either. I understand it's often an improvement over other options for employment. That makes it understandable and even supportable to some extent, not okay.

Here in the US, we spent centuries fighting and dying for better options. Tools like this are used to launder the dismantling of the results of all that work through a fantasy of objective metrics.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#83

Post by [deleted] »

infecto wrote: post #56

The only thing truly embarrassing is that nobody at YC advised them that this ad is 1) terribly amateur and 2) has the chance to look extremely bad. Did not advise and in fact published to their feed. Weird optics, I am not familiar with what I presume to be Indian factories, other than the wild lack of safety (thanks youtube) but I cannot see how this video does anything positive. As for the product itself I don't t…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#84

Post by philipjoubert »

oulipo wrote: post #78
philipjoubert wrote: post #35

As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country and whose mother owned a clothing factory, this product seems...fine? The response is an indication of how little people know about how their t-shirts and shoes are made.

TBH I'd rather buy shirts where I know that people doing them have been well-treated

The people who worked in these companies are usually incredibly grateful for the opportunity to do seated work indoors for reasonable wages.

Applying Western labour practices to third world countries would prevent them from ever developing...hurting the very people we all want to help.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#85

Post by sarchertech »

danpalmer wrote: post #76
seper8 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Necessary according to who?

Colleagues, the business. The important things are that performance management is a) used to identify those performing far below what is possible, and b) that there is a good faith effort to support those people to perform better. Both of these things are mis-handled by many companies, who will use it to encourage more performance out of those who are already as productive as practically possible, and that the tools…

You don’t need constant monitoring to find the bottom 10% though. People performing that badly are easy to pick out with spot checks.

It’s the same with software. Your direct manager should know if their employee is in the bottom 10%. If they don’t, they aren’t doing their job or they have too many reports.

What constant automated monitoring allows is cutting back on the number of managers and like you said, pushing high performers even further.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#86

Post by solardev »

pera wrote: post #50
2099miles wrote: post #10

Tbh this isn’t that crazy. If you hire someone to do their job outputting 10 items per hour and that number is reasonable because a bunch of other workers you hired for the same job are doing it and 1 guy hits 1 per hour then that guys shouldn’t be doing that job. The outrage should be focused on the absolute meme of their ad video cuz they were like “lets literally have a convo with an individual but refer to them a…

Your example sounds reasonable but it's not realistic: The actual use of this type of tools is to intimidate those workers who have outputted 9.8 items instead of the average 9.9 over the past week. This is how our society ended up making Amazon delivery workers urinating in fucking bottles inside their trucks.

You've spent 32.8 seconds urinating this shift, 1.3 seconds longer than average. Your bonus has been reduced until performance meets standards. At Amazon, the customer comes first!

Congratulations! This week your urination schedule has improved. Enjoy a Kindle credit on us, good for any ebook license under $2.99. At Amazon, our partners come first!

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#87

Post by neuroticnews25 »

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #9

Imagine the features you could add to this. Like a robot that walks around behind the workers and gives well-timed corrective communications with a whip.

So it appears that automating managers is easier than automating "unskilled workers"

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#88

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #58
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then if everyone is out of their job and unemployed ? who will buy the stuff if noone has the money. I think there is a balance. Otherwise its going to be 1984 in more than one way (the spying part is already there) (it would also do of that the countries are ready to produce things as much but they won't and limit it to create that constant mood of war to make people not question them / make them weak.) I think…

Having a "job" is not some universal good. What people need is resources/needs met. Refusing to buy factory shoes because it puts cobblers out of business is a losing strategy. Better to support the former cobblers needs than to keep forcing them to make shoes.

Except I just want to say that we don't support the cobblers ?

Would they even be cobblers if they are out of business / are heavily impacted by it (like it wipes out 90% cobblers , making their lives actively worse , forcing them to go into the factory lives which actively sucks for them)

I am not sure this is a nuanced topic.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#89

Post by Kye »

philipjoubert wrote: post #84
oulipo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I'd rather buy shirts where I know that people doing them have been well-treated

The people who worked in these companies are usually incredibly grateful for the opportunity to do seated work indoors for reasonable wages. Applying Western labour practices to third world countries would prevent them from ever developing...hurting the very people we all want to help.

Applying those practices to western employment will mean no one can afford what those grateful people make.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#90

Post by bayindirh »

philipjoubert wrote: post #84
oulipo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I'd rather buy shirts where I know that people doing them have been well-treated

The people who worked in these companies are usually incredibly grateful for the opportunity to do seated work indoors for reasonable wages. Applying Western labour practices to third world countries would prevent them from ever developing...hurting the very people we all want to help.

But the lack of the practices shouldn't give the owners free reign to better themselves more while depleting others in the name of "wanting to help".
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