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Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

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Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#51

Post by yogurt-male »

2099miles wrote: post #13
2099miles wrote: post #10

Tbh this isn’t that crazy. If you hire someone to do their job outputting 10 items per hour and that number is reasonable because a bunch of other workers you hired for the same job are doing it and 1 guy hits 1 per hour then that guys shouldn’t be doing that job. The outrage should be focused on the absolute meme of their ad video cuz they were like “lets literally have a convo with an individual but refer to them a…

Continued rant : It’s kinda like a ruler. If you measure workers so that one’s doing 10x less/worse output than the average that’s good. If you compare workers down to the .01% difference in output that’s stupid and inhumane.

Yes, but many business owners/managers are stupid and inhumane.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#52

Post by astonex »

The product should be marketed as a tool for monitoring and highlighting bottlenecks in the manufacturing production line in order to help maintain peak output. This is a completely reasonable thing to want, it's no different to monitoring micro-services and their latencies/loads.

The video they made however where they berate and meanly put-down an individual employee is so far from acceptable. That's not how personnel performance issues should be managed in the real world, completely void of human empathy. It shows the founders (and did YC view and approve this?) are lacking in areas

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#53

Post by mattmaroon »

This seems like a tempest in a tea pot. You're automating doing what factory floor managers already do? Hitler! From the title I thought they had developed a robot that flogs 6 year old workers or something.

If I were YC, though, I'd probably have a rule about startups not using "backed by Y Combinator" logos on their homepage like Optifye does. YC's a pretty low touch investor at the seed round level, their startups could do lots of things YC didn't expect, didn't know about, and couldn't prevent.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#54

Post by lokar »

Having been in this industry for a long time now, I see a disappointing trend in tech, and US society in general: viewing everything at zero sum.

I’m probably naive, but I remember in the past tech focusing on innovation that would generate enough gains for everyone to get a share (or at least the gain to the tech company did not come at the expense of someone else)

Now, more and more I see business plans that are zero sum. Using tech to take from someone else, not growing the pie.

This matches a general trend in public life is the US to view everything as a zero sum contest

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#55

Post by oulipo »

2099miles wrote: post #10

Tbh this isn’t that crazy. If you hire someone to do their job outputting 10 items per hour and that number is reasonable because a bunch of other workers you hired for the same job are doing it and 1 guy hits 1 per hour then that guys shouldn’t be doing that job. The outrage should be focused on the absolute meme of their ad video cuz they were like “lets literally have a convo with an individual but refer to them a…

The product is shit. At some point we have to put human decency first, and not lock people in AI-surveilled setups.

If you're worried about some guy slacking, then hire some supervisors, ask them to chat with the employees, understand what their issues come from, if they had a rough week and they need some slack, etc.

But doing it impersonally through an AI is inhumane.

Imagine if you have kids and we replace all their teachers with just a camera and an AI, that "teaches them to write" and then nag them if they're not "as good as their classmates" or whatever... that would be insane. Kids are meant to be loved and grow with care.

Well, guess what, grown ups too. Job or no job. We're not here "in order to make money for the bosses", but just to all contribute in a just and useful manner to society. And so workers need to do their part of the job, but bosses need also to respect the humanity and decency of workers. It goes both ways.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#56

Post by infecto »

The only thing truly embarrassing is that nobody at YC advised them that this ad is 1) terribly amateur and 2) has the chance to look extremely bad. Did not advise and in fact published to their feed. Weird optics, I am not familiar with what I presume to be Indian factories, other than the wild lack of safety (thanks youtube) but I cannot see how this video does anything positive.

As for the product itself I don't think it is unusual, these types of measurement systems are not new and can be helpful for a factory, like all things, it boils down to the owner/managers of said factory not the tool.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#57

Post by [deleted] »

danpalmer wrote: post #26

This sort of performance management is unfortunately necessary. The problem is that we need tools for it to be built by people who can empathise with those subjected to them, and who want to do the right thing, and not these sorts of folks who are too immature and inexperienced to get it right. My previous company ran a warehouse and there was a clear bell curve of productivity. Most people were fine, some were excel…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#58

Post by singpolyma3 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #25
Suzuran wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody looks at people as robots. Robots are cheaper, do not require food or sleep, and do not have to be murdered when they attempt to unionize. Robots are far superior.

But then if everyone is out of their job and unemployed ? who will buy the stuff if noone has the money. I think there is a balance. Otherwise its going to be 1984 in more than one way (the spying part is already there) (it would also do of that the countries are ready to produce things as much but they won't and limit it to create that constant mood of war to make people not question them / make them weak.) I think…

Having a "job" is not some universal good. What people need is resources/needs met. Refusing to buy factory shoes because it puts cobblers out of business is a losing strategy. Better to support the former cobblers needs than to keep forcing them to make shoes.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#59

Post by infecto »

trunch wrote: post #33
2099miles wrote: post #10

Tbh this isn’t that crazy. If you hire someone to do their job outputting 10 items per hour and that number is reasonable because a bunch of other workers you hired for the same job are doing it and 1 guy hits 1 per hour then that guys shouldn’t be doing that job. The outrage should be focused on the absolute meme of their ad video cuz they were like “lets literally have a convo with an individual but refer to them a…

Because this will definitely be used only to innocently tell off people doing 1/10 the work of everyone else, and not micromanage and hound people to increasingly unrealistic standards in already desperate conditions. Safe to say you aren't in any position where every move you make will be watched by AI and analysed for faults so that your boss can scream at you more efficiently whenever you don't meet standards for…

Do you really think this tool is making folks micromanage and abuse employees or perhaps they already would be doing that and this tool helps it?

There can be real value in these types of tools, its ultimately up to the implementation and I don't believe this tool will somehow make a happy work environment into an abusive one, the abuse will have most likely already existed.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#60

Post by neuroticnews25 »

I think people are scared this will increase the power of the companies over workers. But a worker’s negotiating position is based on their indispensability and productivity, and on average this won’t change that. I know in reality it's often the fog of war that makes the work bearable. And many good managers more or less consciously keep it that way. But fundamentally, how can more insight and more truth be bad? My resources are limited and I'd rather spend them on a good worker than a slightly worse one. I thought that was the whole point of meritocracy.
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