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DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

nytimes.com

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Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#501

Post by [deleted] »

etchalon wrote: post #394
harry8 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years ago I read a story about an obstetrician in the USA. His premiums at that time for professional negligence were $1m per year. He would have to keep paying those premiums for 18 years after his retirement. Same for every obstetrician. Professional fees then must be set to cover those insurance premiums. Has that changed for the better in the USA? Seems very unlikely to be the same in Europe. Obstetrics is obv…

This was an argument in the 90s/early 20s. TX, where I live, implemented tort reform in 2003 to limit doctor's exposure, and decrease insurance costs. It hasn't had much impact on costs: https://healtheconomicsreview.biomedcentral.com/articles/10....

[deleted]

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#502

Post by cwalv »

digitaltrees wrote: post #470
cwalv wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you square that with the fact that spending as a percentage of GDP is only slightly elevated compared to the historical average...? Why should it scale linearly with GDP? I can see an argument that it should scale linearly with population (maybe), but if GDP per capita increases, you could also expect better tech/productivity to allow gov spending per capita to decrease. > What do you think should be cut, an…

It scales linearly because the same ratio of services to people continues. There aren’t suddenly less kids to educate, less elderly that need health care or less cases in federal court as the population grows. —- As someone that has been in healthcare for 12 years it’s broken because of the corporate structure and administrative state of companies. The payors and providers share the same incentive to raise rates beca…

> It scales linearly because the same ratio of services to people continues

That would be scaling with population, not GDP.

> The payors and providers share the same incentive to raise rates because they each collect a percentage of premiums

This must be an oversimplification. Why would insurers ever reject a claim, or spend time negotiating lower rates, if they're only incentivized to see health costs increase?

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#503

Post by crazygringo »

starspangled wrote: post #495
sxyuan wrote: post #248

For those who want to have a substantive discussion on the federal budget and believe these cuts are justified, I have a few questions (putting aside questions of constitutionality for this thread): 1. There are claims that federal spending is out of control. How do you square that with the fact that spending as a percentage of GDP is only slightly elevated compared to the historical average going back to at least th…

> 1. There are claims that federal spending is out of control. How do you square that with the fact that spending as a percentage of GDP is only slightly elevated compared to the historical average going back to at least the 1970s, with the main deviation in the past few years coming from the after-effects of the pandemic? [1] Government expenditure as a proportion of GDP has been rising steadily for a century and is…

> Government expenditure as a proportion of GDP has been rising steadily for a century and is now approaching 40%

No it hasn't. It rose until about 1980 (mostly until 1970), and it's been about the same for the past 45 years.

And yes, it rose 1925-1980 as we built the modern social services state. With social security, Medicaid, Medicare, and so forth. This was a worldwide phenomenon too, not just the US. People asked for more from their governments. This is a good thing.

It does not look like it's currently trending upward, from your own data.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#504

Post by JackYoustra »

thrance wrote: post #367
JackYoustra wrote: post #299

Rule of law is what allows us to grow. Acemoglu won a nobel prize showing that institutions cause growth. Destroy institutions and you'll undershoot potential.

Pet peeve: there is no Nobel prize of economics, Alfred Nobel didn't include "economy" in his will. Instead there is a "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences" whose purpose is to give credibility to the unscientific field of economics. The prize itself is mostly awarded to neoliberalists economists and does not often represent the majority views in the field.

You can look at the economic experts panel to find the majority view of the field: https://www.kentclarkcenter.org/us-economic-experts-panel/

and most nobel prize winners have majority support. If you have objections to acemoglu, please show me the majority of economists that object to him?

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#505

Post by zvorygin »

alienthrowaway wrote: post #381
JackYoustra wrote: post #299

Rule of law is what allows us to grow. Acemoglu won a nobel prize showing that institutions cause growth. Destroy institutions and you'll undershoot potential.

The "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality and short-termism has been festering for decades at many American institutions, such as for-profit companies. Openly selling the country short for personal benefit is just one small step after many hundreds of them to get where we are.

When have the corporations ever not had a short-termist "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality in America?

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#506

Post by ericmay »

EarthMephit wrote: post #474
harry8 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years ago I read a story about an obstetrician in the USA. His premiums at that time for professional negligence were $1m per year. He would have to keep paying those premiums for 18 years after his retirement. Same for every obstetrician. Professional fees then must be set to cover those insurance premiums. Has that changed for the better in the USA? Seems very unlikely to be the same in Europe. Obstetrics is obv…

Australians are more litigious than Americans, with similar insurance costs for doctors, yet our healthcare costs are still half of the USA's. So insurance costs may be a factor, but its doubtful that its a large factor in healthcare costs, they largest factor is by far the public vs private system. I experienced US healthcare when I went to visit a doctor in the US for a simple (obvious) ear infection. I was charged…

> The problem in the US is that doctors and hospitals are incentivised to give patients unnecessary tests and medication, because it inflates their bills, and they make more profit.

You’re right about what happened, but not for the wholly right reasons. The hospital charged you so much because they have to also negotiate prices with insurance companies (health insurance companies are just for-profit government agencies, they don’t actually serve a market value today) and pay for those who are uninsured. There are for-profit healthcare systems of course, but that’s only part of the story.

If the cost of the doctor’s time and the medication was $100, they can now cover let’s say 3 uninsured people for $300 each then take the other $300 you paid and book that against someone going bankrupt or a difference in negotiated cost with the insurance agency.

In America we have privatized profit for the insurance companies and socialized loss. They deny a claim, book a profit, the person with the claim doesn’t get treatment, then can’t work, then needs care, and society pays for it.

Purely from a cost perspective we should just go to single payer, but we won’t do that because who is going to the the politician that causes 10s of thousands in job losses of highly paid white collar professionals?

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#507

Post by pclmulqdq »

thrance wrote: post #471
pclmulqdq wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't have "class consciousness." He has consciousness of his own interests. That is what pretty much everyone has.

Well no, why did the working class people vote for Trump then? Clearly they don't stand to benefit from any of this nonsense.

I have an Eastern European friend who has said that sometimes, in his country, they elect a madman to remind the political class who is actually in charge if they get too corrupt or stop serving the people. My best guess is that Trump is that madman.

I am not convinced this is a good strategy, but it is at least a strategy.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#509

Post by leandrod »

uses wrote: post #205
cuuupid wrote: post #84

I think impartial observers have not spent time in actual government bureaucracy. Basically everything will seem like “they’re cutting something important!” Or “they’re stopping critical research!” because every government contract needs justification; so naturally they will all sound good. The data and accounting itself is such bad quality in all cases that it is impossible to be perfect at this; there are entire in…

Even if you’re 100% correct, these aren’t the right people and these aren’t the right methods. Completely the opposite actually.

So who and which would be? Given SpaceX, Trump could have chosen worse.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#510

Post by frugalmail »

I think what doge is doing should always be happening. According to the article the website doesn't have the rigor they're expecting. But then again, I never interpreted it as a double entry ledger for the public to review. They're moving fast and put in a position able to make the changes that many know should be made, but lacked the power to make the changes. As long as it's all legal, we should all be glad that there is opportunity for things to come to light. The article even confirms billions have been saved already. Sounds good to me, considering what some of the expenses were.

The fact that workers, in many cases new or probationary, sued for irreparable hardship, when many organizations go through layoffs every few years is exemplary of a sense of entitlement that has been calloused.

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