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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#531

Post by GeekyBear »

nickburns wrote: post #507
mox1 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International users that have Advanced Protection enabled would in theory be safe from all of the 3-letter agencies (like safe from those agencies getting the data from Apple...not safe generally). Realistically we are talking about FISA here, so in theory if the FBI gets a FISA court order to gather "All of the Apple account data" for a non-us person, Apple would either hand over the encrypted data OR just omit that…

> its reasonable to assume they would do the same in the US (disable the feature if USG asked for a backdoor or attempted to compel them to decrypt) I think it's more likely that Apple would challenge it in US courts and prevail. Certainly a legal battle worth waging, unlike in the UK.

This has already happened, and Apple did fight it in the US courts.

Eventually the US government withdrew their demand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption...

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#532

Post by yunesj »

anoncow wrote: post #506

>Online privacy expert Caro Robson said she believed it was "unprecedented" for a company "simply to withdraw a product rather than cooperate with a government. That is such a self serving comment. If Apple provides UK a backdoor, it weakens all users globally. With this they are following the local law and the country deserves what the rulers of the country want. These experts are a bit much. In the next paragraph t…

Fake privacy experts like Caro Robson need to be held accountable.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#533

Post by onei »

scott_w wrote: post #518
onei wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify a bit further, the UK head of state is King Charles III, as he is for a bunch of other countries in the Commonwealth. Head of state in the UK is a bit weird compared to countries that abolished or never had a monarchy.

You’re correct, however I gave GP the benefit of the doubt and assumed they meant Secretary of State ;-) And, to be fair, while I’m generally a small r republican, I’m seeing benefits of having a non politically aligned head of state after J6. While the monarch has limited power, booting out a PM that can’t command the confidence of Parliament is one of them. The question of whether Johnson would accept being dethron…

The UK monarch's power is largely based on convention more than active decision making. For example, a government is formed at the invitation of the monarch, but that's long reflected the results of an election. Getting rid of a PM generally happens when they run out of luck. That sometimes coincides with the ruling party/coalition imploding. The next PM is then shortlisted by MPs and selected by a minority of the electorate.

I guess the US equivalent is the leader of the house being unable to hold their majority together. In some ways the presidential election feels more democratic if a relative outsider (like Trump was) can win. But a 2 year lead up is crazy.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#534

Post by maccard »

pb7 wrote: post #502
4ndrewl wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not arrested for posting on Facebook. They're arrested for _what_ they're posting on Facebook.

Yes, people in the US don't get arrested for that.

Yes, they do.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/pr/page-man-charged-threaten...

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/30/us/georgia-woman-facebook...

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/19/influencer-gets-months-i...

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndal/pr/birmingham-man-sentence...

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#535

Post by commandersaki »

bloqs wrote: post #377
jahewson wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of the U.K., they can throw you in jail for not handing over your encryption key, so it’s a moot point. They’ve been slowly expanding this power for twenty years now.

Not for content in the cloud, as far as I understand. Someone will correct me, but you can be arrested and threatened with terror charges if you dont unlock your device, but this does not give them permission to access other computers via the internet.

Tommy Robinson trial for refusing to provide his unlock credentials when ingressing UK is happening in March this year.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#537

Post by mschuster91 »

miohtama wrote: post #425
ljm wrote: post #358

Fundamentally, I think the issue is more about technical literacy amongst the political establishment who consistently rely on the fallacy that having nothing to hide means you have nothing to fear. Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. On the authoritarianism: these laws are always worded in such a way that they can be applied or targeted va…

Furthermore, one UK head of state call everyone supporting encryption pedophiles https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/1892972120818299199

And that's why it is so important to nip this "pedo" / "think of the children" crap right in the bud.

Obviously pedos on the interwebs are bad, but hey as long as it's just anime they're whacking off to I don't care too much. But the real abuse, that's done by - especially in the UK - rich and famous people like Jimmy Savile. And you're not gonna catch these pedos with banning encryption, that's a fucking smokescreen if I ever saw one, you're gonna catch them with police legwork and by actually teaching young children about their bodies!

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#538

Post by worik »

scott_w wrote: post #518
onei wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify a bit further, the UK head of state is King Charles III, as he is for a bunch of other countries in the Commonwealth. Head of state in the UK is a bit weird compared to countries that abolished or never had a monarchy.

You’re correct, however I gave GP the benefit of the doubt and assumed they meant Secretary of State ;-) And, to be fair, while I’m generally a small r republican, I’m seeing benefits of having a non politically aligned head of state after J6. While the monarch has limited power, booting out a PM that can’t command the confidence of Parliament is one of them. The question of whether Johnson would accept being dethron…

> And, to be fair, while I’m generally a small r republican, I’m seeing benefits of having a non politically aligned head of state

One of the benefits of a constitutional monarchy is the head of state did not campaign for the position.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#539

Post by LPisGood »

fsflover wrote: post #413
drexlspivey wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably these keys live in a hardware security module on your phone called “secure enclave” and cannot be extracted

Is this module auditable though, or is "just trust us", like everything in the Apple world?

It’s auditable in the sense that there is a very high potential for reward (both reputationally and financially) for security researchers to break it.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#540

Post by nashashmi »

wrs wrote: post #289
ComputerGuru wrote: post #199

Note that this doesn’t satisfy the government’s original request, which was for worldwide backdoor access into E2E-encrypted cloud accounts. But I have a more pertinent question: how can you “pull” E2E encryption without data loss? What happens to those that had this enabled? Edit: Part of my concern is that you have to keep in mind Apple's defense against backdooring E2E is the (US) doctrine that work cannot be comp…

> how can you “pull” E2E encryption without data loss You can’t. The article says if you don’t disable it (which you have to do yourself, they can’t do it for you, because it’s E2E), your iCloud account will be canceled.

At this point, the right thing to do is allow for an alt-service.
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