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DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
151–160 of 268 posts
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#152I wonder if they are just shorting Nvidia...
This could boost Nvidia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
> In economics, the Jevons paradox occurs when technological advancements make a resource more efficient to use (thereby reducing the amount needed for a single application); however, as the cost of using the resource drops, if the price is highly elastic, this results in overall demand increases causing total resource consumption to rise.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Semianalysis is a trusted and reputable source that has deep knowledge of the semiconductor industry and supply chains. So yes, they know. > love your joke! > Get a real life please. > Too bad that you didn't learn this back in school. Read the site guidelines, as you’re repeatedly resorting to personal attacks in your comments on discussions around DeepSeek or China. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
SemiAnalysis has made up many things.
They claim that a small Chinese hedge fund could acquire $1bln in GPUs, with no state support, including many sanctioned chips, then trained a model optimized for a far smaller server compute size, and that they have a source at this very small fund who is willing to admit to export violations. A 40bln param active model is exactly the size you would expect from a server of the size they claim.
What’s more likely - that semianalysis made it up like they have a bunch of other things, or that all the above is true?
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#154deepseek just keeps on giving. kudos to them.
i can almost hear sam altman and dario amodei cry every time deepseek does something amazing.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#155I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.
It's just an Nvidia short, so they can get the yuuge amount of graphic cards they need for further training even cheaper (joke).
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#156I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.
It’s greed not national interests unless you know something I don’t about greedy people.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the moat might be in the hardware and vertical integration. The moat is the products that can be built. The moat is always the product - because a differentiated product can't be a commodity. And an LLM is not a product. Google and MSFT and Meta have already "won" because they have profitable products they can build LLMs onto. Every other company seems to be burning cash to build a product, and only ChatGPT is gett…
See I kind of buy the database argument but also kind of don't. A database needs an operator whereas a LLM doesn't. You're basically melting the product into a piece of goo and the UI can be approached using natural language. For products that still need a UI you could claim that LLM operators take over, so that's still a tax you pay to the incumbents as you interact with a product. It's sort of like we take the mone…
LLMs absolutely need an operator - who runs the servers and GPUs that hosts the models? Who writes the system prompts? Who fine tunes and trains the models? This can be a big cloud api like AWS, but it can also be a custom-in-house service for a company.
Users of LLMs don’t quite have an equivalent employee to a DBA, but neither do most customers of AWS DynamoDB or RDS or whatever.
Many use cases of LLMs won’t be chat bots like ChatGPT. They’re be tools for automated summarizations, classifications, etc. They’ll be automated assistance and basic tool calling, etc. They’ll perform OCR and documentation analysis. Automated translations etc.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a more practical view: there's nothing wrong in making profit, the important thing is that they are also doing some good.
> As though you rendered the proletarians a service in first sucking out their very life-blood and then practicing your self-complacent, Pharisaic philanthropy upon them, placing yourselves before the world as mighty benefactors of humanity when you give back to the plundered victims the hundredth part of what belongs to them! Friedrich Engels: The Condition of the Working-class in England
I have no idea about this but am curious to know if the wealthy Engels family who 'owned large cotton-textile mills in Barmen and Salford, England' showed the way for your other 'mighty benefactors'? What belongs to who is a mighty question as Obama reminded us with his lead pencil example. No easy answer though.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#159I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.
Don’t forget Google who typically make their best AI products available only to large customers. For “safety” of course.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, it’s a highly effective PR tactic that works well for the small fish. You say your competition is too selfish and you just want to help people and it creates a bunch of goodwill you can use to grow. Once you grow, your view on things changes, and you’re able to be more selfish. It’s not guaranteed things will go that way, but it’s certainly true that this is a good PR tactic for new entrants in to a crowded fie…
I think DeepSeek is trying to push the idea that LLMs are not marketable products themselves, but are a part of the 'digital commons', as in a hard to develop and maintain software which in of itself does not produce value, but can be the foundation of a product that does. This is very similar to what Facebook is doing with Llama, or what is going on with big open source projects, like databases or the Linux kernel.…
Rather than a foundation for their products, I think they're just trying to make it impossible for new competitors to enter that market because if when all the biggest models are open-sourced, a new player can't convince investors to bring billions on the table as there's nothing to monetize – the alternative is free.
Why enter the market now when AI is already commoditized? DeepSeek is making US investors regrets investing so much to get a tiny lead over them, but they're also making future, large investments much harder to justify when you can rely on existing open-sourced models