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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#461

Post by vixen99 »

ideashower wrote: post #396
eecc wrote: post #201

IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems -- including government -- are always tainted and currently championed by anti-social elites that use them to break apart these collective machines. Bureaucracies are a common good, and it should be in everyone's interest to apply state-of-the-art system engineering to make them as valuabl…

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

Of course some level of bureaucracy is essential for any human society but your generalization takes us nowhere because it's riven with assumptions about that 'human element'.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#462

Post by pembrook »

drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

Why would you want a law that says government workers have zero accountability over how they spend the money they extract by threat of violence from the citizenry?

We should all have "root access" to everything but the most national-security sensitive topics.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#463

Post by mr_toad »

Etheryte wrote: post #242
willis936 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You personally are cool with me personally knowing your salary and where you live? Please just post that here right now.

That might sound incredibly foreign to you, but this is the norm in many Nordic countries, see Norway, Sweden and Finland, for a start. Tax returns for everyone are public, and so are addresses through a national registry.

In New Zealand public servants salaries were published in the “Public Service List” from 1866 through to 1988.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/zoomify/33070/page-from-the-public-...

Anecdotally they were mainly used to evaluate potential dates.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#464

Post by alabastervlog »

hotpotatoe wrote: post #345
mandmandam wrote: post #56

The moment they had physical access to the system, it was necessary to assume this. It's called an 'evil maid' attack, and of all communities this one should have been blowing the whistle. Loudly, repeatedly, and in open defiance of people who argue that this is a storm in a teacup, a non issue, just another MOT, etc. Especially when you look at the background of the Doge team - 'ex' hackers, 'security specialists',…

It’s not surprising the CEO of YC supports this, he also supports the idea of the network state. This community is now primarily exists to launder Curtis Yarvins galaxy brain ideas.

The most surprising thing about the fascist takeover is that it’s so incredibly stupid.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#465

Post by catlifeonmars »

cm2187 wrote: post #116
scarab92 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk isn't a do-things-by-half kind of guy.

But also when you make cuts, you go hard, fast, and recover from there. Any effort of small trimming over a long period achieves no saving while producing the same negative publicity. I doubt such cutting effort will happen for another 30y. There is a french say I like. If you need to cut a dog’s tail, don’t cut an inch every day, chop the whole thing quick

> There is a french say I like. If you need to cut a dog’s tail, don’t cut an inch every day, chop the whole thing quick

Well there’s cutting off the dogs tail, and then there’s accidentally cutting off your own fingers in your haste to get the dogs tail.

There is another saying:

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Act quickly when needed but not so quickly that you don’t have time to assess. You should know what you’re cutting before you cut.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#466

Post by DAGdug »

alistairSH wrote: post #432
bdd8f1df777b wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracy is always risk averse. Without outside intervention, they will always try to operate as before.

But is that a problem? Or is that functioning as intended? Generally speaking, I want my government to be stable, predictable, and consistent over fairly long time horizons.

Depends on how they weigh the cost of a false positive versus false negative decision. The former seems to often be the key focus of a bureaucracy, slowing down the rate of diffusion of new technologies even among willing adopters.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#467

Post by KittenInABox »

dionian wrote: post #458
ideashower wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

I don't think unelected bureaucrats should have more power than the elected leaders of the Executive. Try the "shoe on the other foot" principle: Imagine if Trump put lifetime leaders in those agencies and they fought against the next Progressive president.

Unelected bureaucrats don't have more power than the elected leaders of the Executive. The power to remove them arbitrarily is simply not a power that the leaders should have. Ideally, Trump's lifetime leaders in those agencies would have been installed by committee between both parties and so are apolitical whose sole focus is their job duties and serving the people, and can fight against the next Progressive president purely on that basis.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#468

Post by powerofmAnNnyYy »

eecc wrote: post #201

IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems -- including government -- are always tainted and currently championed by anti-social elites that use them to break apart these collective machines. Bureaucracies are a common good, and it should be in everyone's interest to apply state-of-the-art system engineering to make them as valuabl…

[flagged]

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#469

Post by torpfactory »

Hear me out. Elon wants ultimate control over people’s lives and choices. Why he would want this is a psychological question about which we can only speculate. This is a change from (at least in appearance) his previous libertarian leanings. Whatever the case, this is the plan:

1) Acquire god mode access to government systems and citizens information (contacting, grants, spending, taxes, SSI benefits, you name it).

2) Add features to the Treasury Department’s software to allow him to, with extremely high granularity, control what payments go out. Friends can be rewarded, enemies punished. At first it will take the form of government entities he doesn’t like (USAID, for example). Next will be government opposition in our federal system, mostly blue cities and states with whom he disagrees. Next will be large private entities with whom he disagrees or are business competitors. Finally, individuals opposing him or the government will be personally targeted (for example, by not paying SSI benefits or paying out tax returns, perhaps extended to family members of the opposition, etc). These individual sanctions could extend to large geographic area he dislikes (all of coastal California, for example). He’s putting in place the tools to accomplish this right now as we speak.

3) Fire all bureaucratic opposition elements who might prevent this. Dress it up as a government efficiency measure if you like.

4) Eventually they will pressure large (and maybe small, too) private financial institutions to take part in this scheme (they may have already succeeded, see Citibank and NYC federal funding for migrants).

He’s putting in place the tools for total control by controlling access to money and resources. I don’t exactly know what he plans to do with them but I don’t want to find out given constant interaction with racists and neo nazis on his site.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#470

Post by jeffbee »

ksynwa wrote: post #3

What's Elon's beef with USAID? I would think he would go after something like food stamps first owing to his libertarian ethos. Maybe he sees USAID as a completely benevolent handout and a waste of money? I cannot begin to understand why.

He actually wants black Africans to die from AIDS.
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