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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#241
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance is a regulatory problem. Otherwise it’s a race to the bottom looking for someone to sign off on a flight.

Do we have reason to believe this was a maintenance issue?

I gotta come clean now. I turned the plane upside-down. It was me.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#242
post #22

I stitched together a small audio clip from LiveATC with both the Ground and Tower frequencies mapped to the Left and Right audio channels. It starts around the time the aircraft was cleared to land, and then skips forward to the moment the controllers realized the aircraft crashed. Here is a link to the .mp3 file (it's on Discord for now - I don't know if this is allowed, let me know if it isn't): https://cdn.discor…

The discord link will die soon. The attachment links started expiring at some point last year IIRC.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parts are designed for "ultimate load" which is 150% of the worst case maximum load expected to ever see in service. I used to work at Boeing on the 757 stabilizer trim system. There's the design group and the stress group. I was in the design group, the stress group double checks the design work. One day the stress group called me on the carpet, and asked me why my designs consistently just barely exceeded 150%.…

757 stabilizer trim system Have you shared your thoughts on MCAS? I feel like there are a lot of potential lessons that got missed for all the noise.

I've probably posted a hundred messages here on MCAS! Most were downvoted to hell. The actual 737 pilots I talked to agreed with me, nobody else did. Classic Gell-Mann Effect. The only truthful account of the crashes is the official NTSB report.

The 737 is an electric drive, with a manual backup. The 757 is a scaled down version of the 747's dual hydraulic drive, no manual backup.

More efficient wings and engines obsoleted the 757.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#244
post #6

Video from a passanger, the hull is upside down! https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=617972644350232

There is a longer version that shows the inside of the plane. The flight attendant decisively and composedly ushering the passengers off the (upside down) plane. Hats off.

https://x.com/rawsalerts/status/1891632984500904441/video/1

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see. How come we never see tower video of other crashes?

We do? https://people.com/new-video-dc-plane-crash-shows-final-seco... was an airport camera, IIRC.

That clip was shot by an amatuer with a hand-held camera, it isn't an airport camera.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that maintenance regulation went away with the cuts and even if airlines started to cut corners on maintenance under the assumption they could get away with it, it’s not going to show up 2 days later. Implicating the recent cuts for this crash makes absolutely no sense.

> even if airlines started to cut corners on maintenance under the assumption they could get away with it, it’s not going to show up 2 days later. When would it show up?

Depends a lot on the part of the plane. Some things need to be inspected every few dozen flight hours and serviced after a few hundred.

Some parts of a plane are only seen a few times in the air frame’s lifetime unless there’s a very urgent flaw discovered.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#247
post #18

[flagged]

> so poor regulation could possibly be implicated Can you work out the logical connection for someone who wouldn't understand it?

They've fired a bunch of government employees who work in e.g. air traffic control, inspections, etc. This is likely not a case of some hand-wringing villain at the airline declaring "haha, we're finally free of that pesky regulation, now we can skip all the safety checks!"

Rather, we're seeing "the people in charge of all the procedures" (Govt employees, not airline employees) being grossly understaffed. It's a bit like "inbox zero"; you have a list of SOPs you want to observe, and you want absolute inbox-zero for completely every single procedure, to the letter, for something like flight control, spaceflight, etc.

If you cut staff, and still demand the same throughput, then the simple reality is balls are going to get dropped in the juggling - and at worst, if you refuse to accept that you don't have staff on hand to do it, and threaten to punish people who fail to keep up the same output with less staff, people are going to start lying about it.

And that - that, is the nightmare scenario. That creates what the Russians call "Vranyo": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz59GWeTIik

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#248

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/GtFe8WfUQO It came down really, really hard, gear collapsed asymmetrically it seems, causing it to roll to the side and sheer one wing off then start rolling. And FWIW, the conditions of the runway were, by all reports, excellent. It was considered "dry" conditions.

Looks like security cam footage. Not one set up to view the flight ops, as the view is obstructed by a building and a fence.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a report that it was after touchdown. I’m guessing wind, ice, or something else moved the plane off the centerline and into a crab, it hooked a wheel off the pavement, and cartwheeled. 100% conjecture at this point, just seems like a possible chain of events.

Too bad the airport couldn't find the funds to put a dash cam in the tower. Grump grump grump.

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1is1qoy/video_of_...
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