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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#201

Post by jagged-chisel »

_moof wrote: post #198
WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

There absolutely are cameras recording the entire airport surface. The people in charge of them don't usually have "I should post this to the internet" as their first thought. Some airports do stream them though.

Nor do they have permission to do so.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#202

Post by dylan604 »

WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

If SpaceX can put rockets that produce live feeds of a craft re-entering the atmosphere, we should definitely have dashcams in every cockpit. Wing/tail tips would be cool too even if just to have those seatback screens have actual images. Then again, we still can't definitively say what happened to MH370.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#203

Post by _moof »

sitharus wrote: post #199
noirbot wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much, but my guess would be that smaller planes are more prone to both of these issues? The DC problem was a collision between pilots who didn't see each other in time, which seems more likely with a smaller plane, and this seems to be because of wind/traction, which also seems like it would be more likely with a less heavy/large plane?

Smaller planes fly more often, and there's a lot more of them, so statistically they're more likely to be involved in any incident. The DC collision was an accident waiting to happen, but that airport only serves single-aisle jets and runway 33 can only be used by the smallest of those - like the CRJ and Embraer model. And in this case, it remains to be seen what caused the unexpected roll.

Regionals are also where the newer pilots work.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#204

Post by beerandt »

llm_nerd wrote: post #179
WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/GtFe8WfUQO It came down really, really hard, gear collapsed asymmetrically it seems, causing it to roll to the side and sheer one wing off then start rolling. And FWIW, the conditions of the runway were, by all reports, excellent. It was considered "dry" conditions.

ATC calls out gusts at 33kts on his clearance call.

Not excellent, especially if it's cross.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#205

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lmm wrote: post #124
signatoremo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is full of clickbait messages like this. US and Canada can use a lot more trains, but air transport is more suitable for medium to long distance, such as this Minneapolis-Toronto route. They are complementary. The accident occurred on the ground, any aircraft is susceptible, “more trains” doesn’t make it less so.

> air transport is more suitable for medium to long distance, such as this Minneapolis-Toronto route. Eh maybe. That's not much longer than Beijing-Shanghai. Rail can definitely be competitive. > The accident occurred on the ground Plane crashes generally do. Given that all plane journeys involve at least one takeoff and landing, it's fair to consider collisions and incidents during those as part of a safety comparis…

China eastern airlines has its own desk at the airport to deal with Beijing-Shanghai flights, even after HSR was built out there are still more planes flying between those two mega cities than Minneapolis and Toronto (makes sense if you consider connecting flights wouldn’t benefit from HSR very much). Maybe when they get a maglev going…

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#207

Post by dylan604 »

_moof wrote: post #198
WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

There absolutely are cameras recording the entire airport surface. The people in charge of them don't usually have "I should post this to the internet" as their first thought. Some airports do stream them though.

It's like that footage you see of crowds of people standing around videoing someone in trouble rather than actually attempting to help or even use that phone to call for help. Nope. Gotta get those hits on their social is their primary function. I don't care if you think someone else has already called for help, make the damn call. If it was you that needed the help, what would you want someone else to do for you?

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#208

Post by hugh-avherald »

evil-olive wrote: post #114
stouset wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously, seriously doubt it. The wings are so utterly critical to flight I can’t possibly imagine any situation they’d be engineered to snap off under. Further, that’s where the fuel is and any crash involving a wing rupture is dramatically more dangerous given the risk of fire. Hell even in a crash landing like this you want the plane to stay upright and stable.

> The wings are so utterly critical to flight I can’t possibly imagine any situation they’d be engineered to snap off under. I don't know enough about the details of the CRJ-900 to say for certain, but in general aerospace engineering does include considerations of this sort, where if a component breaks off you want to ensure that it separates in a specific way. from an Admiral Cloudberg article [0] about El-Al 1862…

The purpose of that engineering feature is to ensure the wings stay on.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#209

Post by listenallyall »

culi wrote: post #165
thegrim33 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_in... Seems to instantly prove you wrong ..

If anyone's wondering. Based on the link we have, Fatalities: 2025: 77 (2 fatal accidents) 2024: 0 2023: 0 2022: 10 (1) 2021: 0 2020: 9 (1) 2019: 7 (2) 2018: 1 (1) 2017: 0 2016: 0 2015: 0 2014: 0 2013: 13 (2) 2012: 0 2011: 0 2010: 0 We do indeed seem to be having a particularly bad year. It's only February of 2025 and there's been more than double the total deaths than in the past decade

Deaths don't trickle in individually... one incident causes a huge surge. Any year with a single commercial airline crash is going to be a "particularly bad year"

Not minimizing these tragedies, they are real and hopefully there are some concrete actions we can take to make crashes even more rare. But its also true that your statistical analysis is poor.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#210

Post by listenallyall »

culi wrote: post #167
chrisco255 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the President of the U.S. is totally responsible for the Toronto airport and traffic control.

Well its a flight from the US on a US airline

And the takeoff, in the US, was perfectly safe and uneventful.
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