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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_in... Seems to instantly prove you wrong ..

The comment said specifically "Major" accidents within specific time frame. I don't see anything in your link contradicting them. The claim was not that there were not any accidents.

And the convenient thing about a word like "major" is, you get to define it however you want!

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why... Spend some time talking to a Libertarian zealot. Not saying that you should believe any of their assertions. Let alone adopt their worldview. But you might get a sense of how less-government-is-always-better "logic" works.

As a half-Libertarian, the problem with a lot of libertarian logic is that it's too black and white. Less government/regulation is good if and only if the underlying market is highly competitive. High competition protects consumers. Examples: restaurants, barbers, tailors, spas, almost anywhere small businesses exist. All ancient, well-functioning industries that are comparatively minimally regulated. The problem wit…

If you agree that all people are fundamentally "good". But that's not true, so the barber will start skimping on barbicide and people will start getting infections.

We need regulation because people are not fundamentally "good", even if they mean well. I'm glad you're "half-libertarian" because you are halfway there!

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#46
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a half-Libertarian, the problem with a lot of libertarian logic is that it's too black and white. Less government/regulation is good if and only if the underlying market is highly competitive. High competition protects consumers. Examples: restaurants, barbers, tailors, spas, almost anywhere small businesses exist. All ancient, well-functioning industries that are comparatively minimally regulated. The problem wit…

If you agree that all people are fundamentally "good". But that's not true, so the barber will start skimping on barbicide and people will start getting infections. We need regulation because people are not fundamentally "good", even if they mean well. I'm glad you're "half-libertarian" because you are halfway there!

Yes, in addition to competitiveness, complete information must be available. The customers must know that the barbers are skimping on barbicide, and also have a full understanding of the consequences of that. It's not a default situation, and a lot of regulations are about providing that transparency so that customers can make an informed decision.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#47
post #6

Video from a passanger, the hull is upside down! https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=617972644350232

I know they need to control any possibility of a fire but man would it be a rude awakening to escape a significant plane crash, release your seatbelt while hanging upside down, make it to the exit door and then get sprayed in the face with cold water on a February day in Toronto.

Better cold water and not PFAS/firefighting foam

edit: apparently Canada banned PFAS in firefighting foam.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#48
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a half-Libertarian, the problem with a lot of libertarian logic is that it's too black and white. Less government/regulation is good if and only if the underlying market is highly competitive. High competition protects consumers. Examples: restaurants, barbers, tailors, spas, almost anywhere small businesses exist. All ancient, well-functioning industries that are comparatively minimally regulated. The problem wit…

If you agree that all people are fundamentally "good". But that's not true, so the barber will start skimping on barbicide and people will start getting infections. We need regulation because people are not fundamentally "good", even if they mean well. I'm glad you're "half-libertarian" because you are halfway there!

However, in reality, barbers (at least in the US) are not dangerous places.

If a barber starts acting in a way that makes their customers come down with infections, customers will take their business to the other barber down the street. If this new barber does the same, you will simply go to the next barber.

In this scenario, the first barber to treat their customers well (in a manner that does not pass on infections) will gobble up all the business.

Hence, it makes no sense for any barber to act in a manner that gives their customers infections, as they will quickly go out of business.

Same reason restaurants are naturally incentivized to cook their food as well as possible. 1 food poisoning case is all it takes for their business to go poof.

A true free market (as in, one where there's sufficient competition) keeps businesses in check, and protects customers.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#49
post #20

Starting to wonder of subtle hacking is involved.

The "subtle" hacking is removing the regulations requiring safe maintenance and procedures, removing people responsible for maintaining and implementing the regulations, and removing the people responsible for controlling the traffic safely.

In a highly complex system, all the hacking you need is to allow the ordinary chaotic systems to run more wild and stochastic errors will degrade the system with less traceability than "subtle hacking" — it's hiding in plain sight.

When Facebook or Twitter "Move Fast and Break Things" the consequences are a few users can't use a feature for a while until they notice the issue and patch it.

Do the same with the air transport or health care systems and you start filling morgues.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the ground is more stable than the air doesn't mean there aren't train collisions. Air travel actually has a lower fatality rate per mile than trains do. Rail crossings can be dangerous places.

The Shinkansen has had one fatality in its entire existence. Domestic air travel is insanity, and I say this as a pilot and a flight instructor.

That's cherry-picking to the extreme.

Not only are most trains not Shinkansen, not even most trains in Japan are Shinkansen.

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