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Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

bbc.com

31–40 of 48 posts

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There's more lithium in Russia than there is in Ukraine. Developing their own resources would be a better use of their time and money than invading Ukraine.

Mineral aquisition is a bit of a furphy here .. in my estimation the more important goals for Russia here were expanded access to Black Sea ports, main land access to Crimea, and water supply security to Crimea ... and a nostalgia for the Olde Russian Empire Made Great Again.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There's more lithium in Russia than there is in Ukraine. Developing their own resources would be a better use of their time and money than invading Ukraine.

No, it's even stupider than that. He thinks the US is backing Ukraine because we want their lithium deposits. This is an idea that the Trump admin has recently floated, but it's not the reason that the US has been supporting Ukraine for the last 4 years.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#33
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more lithium in Russia than there is in Ukraine. Developing their own resources would be a better use of their time and money than invading Ukraine.

Mineral aquisition is a bit of a furphy here .. in my estimation the more important goals for Russia here were expanded access to Black Sea ports, main land access to Crimea, and water supply security to Crimea ... and a nostalgia for the Olde Russian Empire Made Great Again.

I think it was mainly about not losing face internally when the separatists would have been defeated. Like, there was a bridge. Water can be piped. The port in Sevastopol was big enough. Etc. And there is no way some mines can repay all the costs just as the invasion of Iraq wouldn't be repaid by Iraqi oil ever.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of defensive countries have lost wars too.

This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavourable deal on Kyiv. Which makes the above justification of a Ukraine absence from divvying up the spoils after a defeat rather circular.

>This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavorable deal on Kyiv.

I dont understand the difference here. Losing a war usually comes with unfavorable terms.

Ukraine is absent from table because durable military power is the table stakes, and they were always a proxy. If the US has decided it is done using Ukraine to bloody Russia's nose and scare Europe into line, then it's basically over.

From the US real politik perspective, it was always a win-win situation going in. The US will walk away with 2 new NATO allies, increased NATO spending, and severed trade with Russia.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mineral aquisition is a bit of a furphy here .. in my estimation the more important goals for Russia here were expanded access to Black Sea ports, main land access to Crimea, and water supply security to Crimea ... and a nostalgia for the Olde Russian Empire Made Great Again.

I think it was mainly about not losing face internally when the separatists would have been defeated. Like, there was a bridge. Water can be piped. The port in Sevastopol was big enough. Etc. And there is no way some mines can repay all the costs just as the invasion of Iraq wouldn't be repaid by Iraqi oil ever.

The North Crimean Canal was shut down in 2014 soon after Russia annexed Crimea.

As a water supply it was a greater than a single pipe .. or even ten. Crimea was running critically low on water after a few years and Russia was keen to restore that otherwise the taking of Crimea rang hollow.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#36
post #19

These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils.

> These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils. That's what peace talks are all about. Do you think Japan and Germany had a say in what they had to give up at the end of WW2?

This is more like the US agreeing to end the Lend-Lease program if Hitler promised to stop his conquest of Europe, allowing him to keep his conquered territory while demanding concessions from the rest of Europe.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#38
post #17
post #12

[flagged]

> Moreover, the premise of Hegseth is a lie. The EU has spent more on Ukraine aid than the US Nope. In military aid his claim is correct, you can see it from your own source you linked: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... Only if you include refugee aid then the EU amount exceeds the US, but that has no bearing on the outcome of the war (this is where most of the EU funding goes to). What…

I'd say he's trying to pick a fight by saying such inflammatory things.

The Kiel Institute divides aid into three categories: military, financial, humanitarian. By the end of 2024, Europe and the US had delivered roughly the same amount of military aid, and Europe had committed to a lot more in the future:

               US   Europe
  Delivered    64    62
  Committed    66   100
  Total       130   162
Deliveries of military aid from both sides closely followed the same growth line throughout 2024. In some months, the US was ahead in total delivered military aid; in others, Europe was. See Figure 1 at https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/Subject_Do...

The second largest category was financial aid, which is also vital for the war effort, because much of it has been provided for rebuilding destroyed infrastructure and ensuring resilience against further attacks:

              US   Europe
  Delivered   47    57
  Committed   50   131
  Total       97   188
Humanitarian aid was fairly insignificant compared to other categories:

              US   Europe
  Delivered    3   16
  Committed   13   13
  Total       16   29
All figures in Euros, rounded to the nearest billion.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#39
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people are pretending to be surprised. When the Soviet Union or Uncle Sams props your army up to fight the other you were in for a bad time. There are like books written about events like these.

I think if you're fighting off a straight up invasion you take the help you can get. That's it. This isn't your typical proxy war situation where US and Russia just pick sides in an internal conflict. This was something else.

> you take the help you can get

Was it really help if the outcome ends up being worse than without any help? I'm taking about loss of life, property, and land.

Re: Ukraine not invited to US-Russia peace talks, source tells BBC

#40
post #39
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you're fighting off a straight up invasion you take the help you can get. That's it. This isn't your typical proxy war situation where US and Russia just pick sides in an internal conflict. This was something else.

> you take the help you can get Was it really help if the outcome ends up being worse than without any help? I'm taking about loss of life, property, and land.

Loss of freedom?
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