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Jane Street's Figgie card game

figgie.com

81–90 of 122 posts

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#81

There is a fantastic blog post by Ross Rheingans-Yoo about the shortcomings of poker as a tool to teach trading and why Figgie is a better one. https://blog.rossry.net/figgie/ He also wrote an equally brilliant eulogy about Max Chiswick, one of his colleagues, who helped him develop it. https://blog.rossry.net/chisness/

In the other direction I like Skull as a pure bluff game without all the pot odds (there is still a bit of odds of course)

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#82

I've enjoyed playing this. The basic strategy that works for me: 1. If I have an obvious skew in the distribution of cards I've been dealt, I can assume the common suit and hence the goal suit and try to buy the cards of that suit. 2. If the distribution of cards I have is more or less even, then I just save that round and try to make back the base cost. The hard part has been trying to understand how to update my be…

Another way of playing is just simple buy low sell high without considering the goal suit. The reward for this style of playing isn't as high as correctly deducing the goal suit, but it's adequately successful. I think this is similar to market making: no matter how the market moves, the market maker makes a small amount of money regardless.

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#83
I looked at this. I don’t fully understand the game yet. One thing I do not like is the emphasis of speed. Humans should not be making fast financial decisions, trading or otherwise. Sure you could improve with this game. But you don’t have to be able to make fast decisions to be successful in finance.

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#84

There is a fantastic blog post by Ross Rheingans-Yoo about the shortcomings of poker as a tool to teach trading and why Figgie is a better one. https://blog.rossry.net/figgie/ He also wrote an equally brilliant eulogy about Max Chiswick, one of his colleagues, who helped him develop it. https://blog.rossry.net/chisness/

Wow, just read through the eulogy and dug up some further links to explore, by Max Chiswick. Some really amazing content developed by these two, but never widely circulated.

https://aipokertutorial.com/

https://poker.camp/aipcs24/1kuhn_reading.html

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that he’s sincere, but that his writing is lighthearted and does “overplay” things for humorous effect. That said, I do think he’s opposed to seed oil. Not having looked into it much, I can’t judge whether he’s crazy or not. But even if he’s wrong, who among us _doesn’t_ have some conspiracy-ish views? I’ll go first: I think fruit juice and milk are not “health foods”, and more comparable to soda. We…

Plenty of agricultural subsidies there for sure, but milk and even fruit juice do provide some nutrients (besides sugar and water) so I think it might be overstating the case a little to lump them in with soda.

I don’t think they’re quite as bad as soda, but I do think they’re fairly close. I think this video is what first convinced me (been a long time since I watched, sorry if I’m wrong about small details): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyFZcuHmeI&pp=ygUWSGVhbHRoY2F...

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#86
post #3

Love this. I’d really like to play with real cards, but the uneven suit setup makes that tough as a party game unless the host sits out. I guess you could prepare a bunch of decks ahead of time. At 4 minutes a round you’d need maybe 10 decks for an hour of playing though. To even it out I guess you’d have 12? But that means you’d have more info about what’s likely in later rounds.. Hmm. Maybe I can nerd snipe some in…

I'd rather play with cards as well.

You can easily set up the cards with two honest Players. Player 1 sorts and makes four piles S-C--H-D. Player 1 looks away, Player 2 puts 8/12 markers randomly on either the first two piles or the last two piles, then randomizes the piles (so Player 1 gets no information from the order).

The hard part is how to do the trading with real cards. You would have to structure/limit the trading a lot instead of the free-for-all that seems to be going on.

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trading just doesn’t make sense to me. it's not complicated. suppose Bob wants to buy an Acura NSX and Kazuo wants to sell a Honda NSX. enter trader Joe. he knows Bob, and he knows Kazuo, and he knows that the Honda NSX was also marketed as the Acura NSX. trader Joe can buy the car from Kazuo, obtain an export license, arrange for shipping and tax duties, and sell the car to Bob for a profit. that is called trading…

> now does it make sense? no. speculation and trading are practically the same to me, the end result is an unhealthy amount of money and immoral profit extraction from virtually doing nothing at all.

my experience of trading and speculation has been the opposite. very little profit (or zero or negative profit) in return for an extraordinary amount of effort and expertise. see Acura/Honda NSX trading.

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#88
post #78
post #3

Love this. I’d really like to play with real cards, but the uneven suit setup makes that tough as a party game unless the host sits out. I guess you could prepare a bunch of decks ahead of time. At 4 minutes a round you’d need maybe 10 decks for an hour of playing though. To even it out I guess you’d have 12? But that means you’d have more info about what’s likely in later rounds.. Hmm. Maybe I can nerd snipe some in…

1. Grab at least 4 cards of each suit 2. Sort them to follow a repeating pattern of 4 distinct suits, e.g. ♥♦♣♠♥♦♣♠♥♦♣♠... 2. Cut the deck, putting the top part under the bottom part 3. (The deck will still have that pattern, but shifted by an unknown amount) 4. Counting out from the top, remove the following cards: - 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th - 2nd, 6th - 3rd, 7th Or: take 3, skip 1, take 3, skip 1, take 1, skip 3, take 1…

or sort them into piles and have people shuffle the piles?

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#89

There is a fantastic blog post by Ross Rheingans-Yoo about the shortcomings of poker as a tool to teach trading and why Figgie is a better one. https://blog.rossry.net/figgie/ He also wrote an equally brilliant eulogy about Max Chiswick, one of his colleagues, who helped him develop it. https://blog.rossry.net/chisness/

Worth noting the author's retraction of the figgie post mentioned, which he makes in the eulogy post:

"Put that way, I was (and am) convinced that my original post was arguing against a strawman . I had never actually played the kind of poker that would make a fair comparison!"

Re: Jane Street's Figgie card game

#90

There is a fantastic blog post by Ross Rheingans-Yoo about the shortcomings of poker as a tool to teach trading and why Figgie is a better one. https://blog.rossry.net/figgie/ He also wrote an equally brilliant eulogy about Max Chiswick, one of his colleagues, who helped him develop it. https://blog.rossry.net/chisness/

I play poker. It really takes thousands of hours to understand the game from a strategic point of view. Then when you have a few very good players, maybe you can start talking about psychology.

Real talk
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