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Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

e360.yale.edu

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Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#81

Post by ainiriand »

jlnthws wrote: post #52

This is the regular current taboo. Micro-dust from tires and brakes contributes to half of an ICE vehicle’s pollution, with the other half coming from exhaust emissions. The amount of this micro-dust scales with a power of the vehicle’s weight, typically between the square and cube for cars, and up to the fourth power for heavy trucks. EVs are 30–60% heavier than their ICE counterparts. Assuming all other factors rem…

My EV does not brake, redirects the power to a motor to act as a dynamo. In exceptional cases you can brake but for emergency braking and such. What you say is a lie, not sure if by ignorance or malice.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#82

Post by steelframe »

bluescrn wrote: post #28
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #7

I think this is missing out on the big issue - tyre pollution which contains really nasty chemicals that inevitably get washed into rivers and waterways. Also, car-shaped EVs often use regenerative braking which will reduce the amount of brake dust pollution, but with their increased weight and powerful torque, they produce a lot more tyre pollution than ICE vehicles. https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/

Interesting that nobody every talked about tyre/brake dust until it became clear that cars aren't going away as we phase out fossil fuels, they're just going electric. Is this a serious environmental concern compared to the climate/emissions issue, or just the 'r/fuckcars mentality'? Meanwhile, here in the UK, one of the more interesting alternatives - personal light EVs (ebikes/scooters) are being utterly demonized,…

> very limited 250W/15mph pedelec class of e-bikes

Meanwhile in the Wild West (a.k.a. the United States) we have children hurling 100+ lb 750W throttle-controlled motorcycles (I'm sorry, "e-bikes") at up to 28 mph on mixed-use pedestrian trails. The best we can do is put up plastic signs on the trail begging them to slow down and be careful around other people.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#83

Post by maeil »

bluescrn wrote: post #28
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #7

I think this is missing out on the big issue - tyre pollution which contains really nasty chemicals that inevitably get washed into rivers and waterways. Also, car-shaped EVs often use regenerative braking which will reduce the amount of brake dust pollution, but with their increased weight and powerful torque, they produce a lot more tyre pollution than ICE vehicles. https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/

Interesting that nobody every talked about tyre/brake dust until it became clear that cars aren't going away as we phase out fossil fuels, they're just going electric. Is this a serious environmental concern compared to the climate/emissions issue, or just the 'r/fuckcars mentality'? Meanwhile, here in the UK, one of the more interesting alternatives - personal light EVs (ebikes/scooters) are being utterly demonized,…

> Is this a serious environmental concern compared to the climate/emissions

Yes.

> or just the 'r/fuckcars mentality'?

No.

"Recent studies have found tire particles made up 94% of microplastics in Switzerland, 61 to 79% in Sweden, 54% in China and 30% in Germany".

"If everyone just drove EVs we could merrily go on driving cars all day" is the 'r/HeadInTheSand mentality'.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#84

Post by croes »

jeffbee wrote: post #69
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fake as there's plenty of reports that EVs do go through tyres quicker. A quick search brings up many articles on the phenomenon e.g. https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-t...

There's nothing categorical about EVs that make them eat tires. The aggregate data about average EV tire life is skewed by the relative popularity of and poor choices made by Tesla.

But we agree that heavier cars have more tire wear.

And EV cars tend to be heavier then comparable combustion cars.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#85

Post by tayo42 »

FreebasingLLMs wrote: post #61
digdugdirk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great idea. And since it'll be limited to in town use, something narrower might be useful - maybe give it two wheels instead of four? That'd be huge for reducing weight and increasing range. And for suitable geographic areas, it might even be possible to make one light enough that it could be powered by the rider, no external power source required! Then, with the reduction in width required for these futuris…

You have a weird dream of how people should use transportation. People like what they like. They like individual cars with 4 wheels. They don't want to share transportation with random people.

Pretty sure he's sarcastically talking about trains existing

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#86

Post by everdrive »

isx726552 wrote: post #78
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #7

I think this is missing out on the big issue - tyre pollution which contains really nasty chemicals that inevitably get washed into rivers and waterways. Also, car-shaped EVs often use regenerative braking which will reduce the amount of brake dust pollution, but with their increased weight and powerful torque, they produce a lot more tyre pollution than ICE vehicles. https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/

This is why a move to natural latex rubber tires is necessary. Companies have experimented with them[1][2] but a world-wide switchover should be in the works. [1] https://www.continental-tires.com/about/sustainability/activ... [2] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/04/eco-friendly-tires-brid...

It's hard to imagine supply scaling with demand, or the tires providing as much grip and safety. I'm supportive, but I see no world where this is adopted.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#87

Post by ComputerGuru »

djaychela wrote: post #33

> with their increased weight and powerful torque, they produce a lot more tyre pollution than ICE vehicles. This has been shown not to be true in a number of studies.

Every study I've seen concurs that EVs chew through tires faster than their equivalent ICE vehicle, and generate more tire particulate matter accordingly. The reasons (torque and weight) are unambiguously greater in an equivalent EV vs ICE.

EVs do generate lower brake particulate matter, by virtue of not using them as much (otherwise they'd also be prone to generating more in a (faulty) per-engagement direct comparison).

Could you link these studies?

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#88

Post by orev »

The Yale article and the paper both highlight the fact that EVs use regenerative braking and produce less dust.

I was worried that this was a rehash of the astroturf campaign from a few years ago focusing on EV weight and how that was so bad for the environment because of tire and road wear. Unfortunately you need to read through the whole thing (instead of the headline and a few paragraphs) to see that information.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#89

Post by [deleted] »

tomrod wrote: post #57
thih9 wrote: post #50

I'm conflicted about declaring something as "more harmful" in such a narrow context. The article says that human cells react worse to dust from modern brakes than to exhaust or even dust from asbestos brakes. But this ignores the impact of exhaust on city pollution, or the hazards of asbestos production process, etc. I guess this only tells us that dust from modern brakes can be dangerous and we should keep an eye on…

PM2.5 is pretty bad. Implicated in exacerbating childhood asthma, heart disease, diabetes, and basically a ton of other issues. Proximity to large roads (like US Interstates) is known to be a bit higher in PM2.5.

[deleted]

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#90

Post by Moto7451 »

bluescrn wrote: post #28
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #7

I think this is missing out on the big issue - tyre pollution which contains really nasty chemicals that inevitably get washed into rivers and waterways. Also, car-shaped EVs often use regenerative braking which will reduce the amount of brake dust pollution, but with their increased weight and powerful torque, they produce a lot more tyre pollution than ICE vehicles. https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/

Interesting that nobody every talked about tyre/brake dust until it became clear that cars aren't going away as we phase out fossil fuels, they're just going electric. Is this a serious environmental concern compared to the climate/emissions issue, or just the 'r/fuckcars mentality'? Meanwhile, here in the UK, one of the more interesting alternatives - personal light EVs (ebikes/scooters) are being utterly demonized,…

It’s also the reward of increased regulations on tailpipe emissions. We now have a new target to clean up. It’s not as if this is new, it just used to be we had lead fuel, poorly burned fuel, tire dust, asbestos in brakes, and many other problematic forms of pollution. We’re just going down the list.

Also, what you’re looking at is an overweighted responsibility on people/consumers to own the solutions to pollution. No matter what car you buy today it is emitting less pollution than ten, twenty, and especially thirty to fifty years ago. Meanwhile we still burn bunker oil (the leftovers from petroleum distillation) in shipping. It’s as if we swore off doing anything better for the planet if it inconveniences a large company.

https://harvardpolitics.com/climate-change-responsibility/

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