Live data from Hacker News

The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

amberweinberg.com

21–30 of 152 posts

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#21

I don't understand what the article is about. Is she trolling for page views? I don't understand why she considers herself "violated" by Apple. Don't people make backups anymore?

Because they removed not only a feature but the access to her data. While she was able to recover it, it wasn't easy.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#22
post #5

Feed readers are dead. Not at all feeds themselves, but the process of using a reader like mail to pull in feeds to a desktop app is going out the window. When consumers buy products, they should be able to look into the future. If you choose technology that is a bit behind the times, understand that you should be careful before upgrading, as old features are often cut from Apple products. This happened in every indu…

> Feed readers are dead. At least as far as standalone desktop apps are concerned, I think you're right. I can't even remember a time when I was not using Google Reader. I do hope RSS-fed reading in general is not going extinct though.

As I got to this page via FeedDemon I think "dead" is an exaggeration.

Sprained seems reasonable though :->

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#23
post #14

If you don't like a product, don't use it. If you don't properly research a product, don't complain about its features. Do some research next time. Take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming others. These are elementary principles.

Speaking as someone who finds RSS to be useless (having tried all kinds of ways to consume it) and knew support had been dropped from ML, I think you're being condescending. It's not like apple advertises unfeatures on its product page. I would have no problem if RSS support were hidden by default for people not obviously using it, but this is pretty stupid. apple has gone from shoving RSS down our throats (default c…

Whether it is stupid, even if we're just going to assume such a thing can be viewed objectively, is beside the point.

If you think it is stupid, don't use it. If you want your money back because you bought something that you didn't properly research, why not ask for it instead of whining about it on your blog?

And, on the point of Apple not advertising 'unfeatures' (I like that term), we, as consumers, make decisions in these situations about how much we're willing to research different investments ahead of time. Likely, for most, an OS is not something to research in depth when it's only $20. But it's only $20. Downgrade if you hate it so much. Live in the past. But don't claim you feel violated... when you made the decision. She violated herself if anything.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#24
post #2

One of the comments notes that this was a well publicized change, citing page 9 of Siracusa's in-depth review. I'm sure every affected user will have read through his entire review before upgrading.

You would still hope that an OS upgrade wouldn't leave your data in an unusable state! As someone above pointed out, it would've been pretty easy for the OS install to determine if you had feeds and export them into an open format and let the user know where they had been exported too so that they may then do something with it.

I don't think the lack of the feature is the main complaint in the article it's that her data seemed to be suddenly gone (I know she eventually found it but it took a third part tool to try to export the proprietary format into something usable).

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#25
In a word Amber, yes, of course you are right to feel violated. Apple removed your data without your consent. The fact that you were able to recover it is impressive, and far beyond the ordinary user.

The fact that you are in the minority because you used a tool and technology (RSS) that is passe if not unpopular, should be no excuse to ignore this kind of treatment. That feed collection was your data, and Apple had no right to remove it or make it inaccessible.

The correct behavior would have been to replace the RSS reader component with a button that a) explains what happened, and b) offers a path to save your data (perhaps a data export or even a link to a MacAppStore app). It would have been particularly slick for Apple to partner with a 3rd party RSS reader to support automatic "cross-grading".

This is not a hard problem, and the fact that Apple didn't even think to solve it is, in fact, disheartening. Hopefully you (and everyone affected by this) will get an apology from them and some sort of redress.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#26
From the LinkedIn profile of the guy who implemented Safari RSS:

Social-Software Introvert

Apple, Inc.

February 2004 – January 2008 (4 years)

Part of a very small team that implemented the news-reading (RSS/Atom) features of the Safari browser in Mac OS X 10.4, and the public news-reading framework for 10.5, used by Mail and 3rd party applications as well as Safari. I also prototyped some wild and crazy social-software applications I can't talk about here, and researched technologies like social networking, P2P, identity systems, and delta encoding.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jensalfke

Obviously there's noone at Apple picking up the slack that Jens Alfke left behind. He's stated repeatedly on his blog that Apple is decidedly not a social software company. Which is ultimately the reason why they removed these features. The reason is not that "RSS is the past" bullshit.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#27

I don't understand what the article is about. Is she trolling for page views? I don't understand why she considers herself "violated" by Apple. Don't people make backups anymore?

You didn't read the article carefully. What would it matter if she made a backup? The data was in a proprietary format squirreled away in a random file and only a period-appropriate utility let her pull it out. She should be thankful, I suppose, that Apple didn't actually delete this database. RSS feed files can get quite large.

But your reaction is a powerful anecdote about the existing narratives around Apple. People tend to treat Apple like this powerful paternal figure. Father knows best, and so unless you are personally smacked down by Father than you tend to defer to him.

In reality, Apple handled this poorly but people will use the "none > bad" logic. Can you imagine if Google closed down Reader and didn't offer an export format in Takeout? But that's because there is a narrative around Google "not getting humans" even though their entire business is understanding your preferences.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#28
post #14

If you don't like a product, don't use it. If you don't properly research a product, don't complain about its features. Do some research next time. Take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming others. These are elementary principles.

I expect an OS to mostly stay out of my way and let me do stuff. If an upgrade is going to damage my stuff in some way it's the most minimal of courtesy to warn me and give me options.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#29

They also kicked the web-Sharing configuration. :( I got to work and wondered why my localhost did not respond. I installed mountain lion the night before. so I thought I have to re-enable websharing but couldn't found the confit anymore. After some googling I got the answer: it has moved to a so called "Server" App for round about $20. It provides many things I didn't use ... and the "old" websharing. :/ Remember St…

brew install $YOUR_WEBSERVER_OF_CHOICE

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#30
Congratulations. You are now what's called a "power user". That means your argument is invalid, because normal users don't know what RSS is. Normal users don't need RSS. RSS is dead. (Obviously nobody has any detailed studies on this, us software devs just assume that the general user is a blithering idiot who needs regular reminders to remember breathing)

/s

Post reply on HN