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Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

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Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#191

Post by brendoelfrendo »

Empact wrote: post #38
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Politics of Smell thesis is actually pretty great, I'm sorry you couldn't get past the title. Frankly, dragging Dr. Louks, who's already explained her thesis and how it was written after it blew up in certain online circles, tells me you didn't actually think that deeply on what she was trying to say. Probably means that the Architecture of Whiteness paper is worth a look, though, so thanks for the unintentional…

What did you learn from the Politics of Smell thesis?

That some people in this comments thread lack curiosity or the ability to engage with the world around them beyond the surface level.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#192

Post by lizknope »

daft_pink wrote: post #84
DanielHB wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are discarding opportunity cost in your assessment.

Maybe, but if you compare paying 30-50k per year plus living expenses for an average masters program for 2-3 years and then paying student loans for a really long time because you couldn't afford it in the first place vs paying no tuition and getting a $30k-40k stipend for 4-5 years. The advantage of a year or two of additional work isn't as great as you think, when you subtract out tuition and the stipend they give…

Lots of masters students are also research / teaching assistants and end up finishing with little debt.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#193

Post by lazyasciiart »

naniwaduni wrote: post #129
dgacmu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to the new administration I would have pointed out that US CS and engineering Ph.D.s are generally paid with a stipend that's "just enough to live on". There's even a website: https://csstipendrankings.org/ I disagree a little with their cost of living calculations - they're off in both directions for areas I know reasonably well. Most Ph.D. students can live for something under the MIT living wage calculations…

The MIT "living wage" figures are, to put it lightly, utterly deranged; more a statement of the purveyors's ideal of a first-world standard of living than a reflection of reality. If they are to be believed, then evidently grad students—or really like, half the population??—must not be alive. As maligned as the poverty lines are—and they do have plenty of shortcomings—they are still a far closer approximation of "the…

You may not have understood the concept of a living wage. For a start, a living wage is expected to support saving for retirement and future expenses like a new car, or eventually buying a house. "People can live on $100/week for six weeks!!!" is not a relevant counter point to "$100/week is not a living wage."

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#194

Post by ckemere »

KPGv2 wrote: post #137
seydor wrote: post #134

> Financial insecurity is also one of the chief concerns for doctoral students in Japan I question the premise that low pay caused this drop. PhD research was never about financial security , instead it pays in prestige and expertise of notoriously ramen-eating overworking geniuses. Prestige has certainly gone down since they became so commodified, and expertise can end with a Master's. Most PhDs are not even compute…

> PhD research was never about financial security You're looking at this wrong. PhD was always about financial security for the vast majority of PhDs. You think all those Chinese and Korean etc. students are coming to study engineering to get invited to the good parties back home? No, they're doing it because it provides financial security. Same for places all over the world. Europe, everywhere. It's basically upper…

Universities have been offering doctoral degrees for at least 800 years. It’s unclear to me that they have ever been linked to powerful/ultra-wealth careers. I think that completely discounting the “prestige” factor would fail to capture a large number of academics. Especially in fields like Philosophy (from whence the Ph gets it’s abbreviation).

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#195

Post by NeutralCrane »

xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

Cost of living and income inequality are soaring. Huge swaths of the population are living in crippling debt because they believed that it was worth it to spend tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars to go to school and learn about what interested them, only to find out it didn’t lead anywhere and they have hamstrung themselves financially for the rest of their lives.

It shouldn’t be surprising that people are putting a premium on financial stability these days.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#196

Post by NeutralCrane »

daft_pink wrote: post #84
DanielHB wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are discarding opportunity cost in your assessment.

Maybe, but if you compare paying 30-50k per year plus living expenses for an average masters program for 2-3 years and then paying student loans for a really long time because you couldn't afford it in the first place vs paying no tuition and getting a $30k-40k stipend for 4-5 years. The advantage of a year or two of additional work isn't as great as you think, when you subtract out tuition and the stipend they give…

I suppose it depends on the field but there are plenty of Master’s programs that have no tuition plus stipend.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#197

Post by globalnode »

declan_roberts wrote: post #169
xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

The only difference between a PhD and a hobby is money, or the presumption of it indirectly (certain jobs, etc) Or else we just call it pursing our natural hobbies and interests. You don't need to go to school for that. If you didn't need more money you wouldn't seek the accreditation.

I would assume there would be more structure and outside requirements to a phd than a hobby. More feedback and more requirements in general to do things you wouldn't do as part of a free form hobby where you could just avoid the undesirable aspects.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#198

Post by cute_boi »

sweeter wrote: post #135
WalterBright wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many research jobs at Microsoft, Google, etc., that require a STEM PhD.

Why pay an American worker 100k + benefits out of college when you can pay an H1B worker 60k for the same level of education and also have a massive amount of leverage over them?

These days it is like why even hire H1B's when they can simply outsource the talent? Even companies like American Airlines are opening big offices in India etc...

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#199

Post by globalnode »

yieldcrv wrote: post #183
xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

> It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research Why is it surprising? The market is saying most people don’t have that privilege and academia is still in denial about that and completely out of touch, your surprise suggests you are… in touch? if this was a standardized test question, which you’re probably good at, you…

Thats a depressing outlook. I feel the lower levels of uni have been co-opted as you say, but once you're passed the undergrad level I think it would become more about interest in the subject and less about a job, don't you think? (Sadly I may be wrong)

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#200

Post by aaronblohowiak »

KPGv2 wrote: post #148
scarface_74 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

President Musk specifically said he wants to focus on getting more H1-B visa holders in the US https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/musk-vivek-ramaswamy-h1b-vi...

I'm not surprised the richest man in the world will commit all manner of sin, because one more dollar might be the one to fill that gaping hole where his heart should be.

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