Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I don't care about Rust but calling a whole community with tens or hundreds of thousands of people toxic will generally get a downvote from me.
Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
561–570 of 1001 posts
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#562A person can be in a tough spot personally and then things seem to spiral out of control around them because that just cannot be 100% isolated from professional stuff or other spheres of life. It seems like this might have happened to Hector based on the post. We've all been there and that part is completely understandable. > I get that some people might not have liked my Mastodon posts. Yes, I can be abrasive someti…
> That’s not ok. Then entertain his question and tell us what is? Bringing up people’s attention to the matter to finally somehow resolve the situation is his last resort, after spending years trying to upstream even trivial patches. You can eat your cake and have it too - you can’t say you want rust in the kernel and then sabotage any upstreaming efforts
How do you respond at your job when people don't do what you want? Do you weaponize social media against them?
Also, the person rejecting the patch seems to have never claimed to want rust in the kernel.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#563> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…
This whole post feels like typical burnout. Imagine porting something as complex as Linux to a platform who's creators actively do not want Linux ported to it. Of course you will burn our eventually. Not to dismiss his experiences, but I wonder if there is some deflection going on here - burnout was happening anyway but blaming others is a good smoke-screen.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but at the time of my reading did not clarify what his actual stance is here. Whatever he says is guaranteed to piss off at least one side of the argument.
Yeah it's not an easy discussion for sure, but he has to say something. At the rate we're going here the existing kernel devs will alienate any capable new blood, and Linux will eventually become Google Linux(TM) as the old guard goes into retirement and the only possible way forward is through money.
Doesn't that assume all "capable new blood" is enthusiastic about rust in the kernel? It seems like a pretty big assumption
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#565I'm not sure about why they are upset with the issue of upstreaming the changes into the kernal. They want to upstream drivers for a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden. The knowledge around it is from a massive , albeit impressive, RE effort. Who is going to support it? Where is the demand for it? It would be different if Apple were to provide p…
> a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden
This doesn’t seem accurate.
> In macOS 12.1, Apple has added the ability to directly boot a raw image directly instead of a Mach-O, even though Apple has absolutely no use for this functionality. According to Hector Martin (Asahi Linux developer) making things easier for Linux developers is the only known reason Apple would have added this.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1396740-apple-adds-feature-i...
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#566This part of the post is being overlooked: Then 2024 happened. Last year was incredibly tumultuous for me due to personal reasons which I won’t go into detail about. Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). This is _not_ ok in any form, what the actual hell?
It's hard to know what he exactly means by this. It sounds pretty bad but this guy does seem to attract and develop a fair bit of drama and this could be a bit exaggerated from the truth.
It very likely is. By "abusers" he likely means "people that are rude to him online" and by "stalkers" the same. Nobody is following him around IRL. He probably is referring mainly to the Kiwifarms people that get a kick out of documenting the downwards spiral of someone like Hector.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It makes sense to be extremely adversarial about accepting code because they're on the hook for maintaining it after that. They have maximum leverage at review time, and 0 leverage after. I don't follow. The one with zero leverage is the contributor, no? They have to beg and plead with the maintainers to get anything done. Whereas the maintainers can yank code out at any time, at least before when the code makes it…
Maintainers can't yank out code if that leads to feature, performance or user space regressions.
Entire filesystems and classes of drivers have been purged from the kernel over time. Removing stuff is not impossible as some here suggest.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was a mistake and a breakdown in processes that wasn't identified early enough to mitigate the problem. That situation does not represent the self imposed expectations on acceptable breakage, just that we failed to live up to it and by the time it became clearer that the change was problematic it was too late to revert course because then that would have been a breaking change. Yes: adding a trait to an existing…
Maintaining backward compatibility is hard. I am sympathetic. Nonetheless, if the rust dev team think this is a big deal, then clarify in release notes, write a blog post and make a commitment that regression at this level won't happen again. So far, there is little official response to this event. The top comment in the thread I point to basically thinks this is nothing. It is probably too late do anything for this…
> Nonetheless, if the rust dev team think this is a big deal, then clarify in release notes, write a blog post and make a commitment that regression at this level won't happen again. So far, there is little official response to this event.
There was an effort to write such a blog post. I pushed for it. Due to personal reasons (between being offline for a month and then quitting my job) I didn't have the bandwidth to follow up on it. It's on my plate.
> The top comment in the thread I point to basically thinks this is nothing.
I'm in that thread. There are tons of comments by members of the project in that thread making your case.
> It is probably too late do anything for this specific issue but it would be good to explain and highlight even minor compatibility issues through the official channel.
I've been working on a lint to preclude this specific kind of issue from ever happening again (by removing .into() calls that resolve to its receiver's type). I customized the diagnostic to tell people exactly what the solution is. Both of these things should have been in place before stabilization at the very least. That was a fuck up.
> This will give people more confidence.
Agreed.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Brigading has no place in open source communities. Agreed. > There are some members of the Rust community who believe C is obsolete and that C programmers should either switch to Rust or get out of the way. This is an extremely toxic attitude that has no place in the Linux kernel! Would you care to share some examples of the Rust for Linux community who have said this? I'm unaware of Hector or anyone else saying an…
I didn't say Rust for Linux community, I said Rust community. Here's an example [1]. You don't have to search online forums and mailing lists very long to find countless others like this. The problem with the brigading (which has been done by the Rust for Linux community) is that it invites these zealots into the conversation. It's totally inappropriate and not at all constructive towards a compromise. Plus the state…
The Phoronix forum is not a good example of anything except hate and toxicity, no matter the subject.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
"a maintainer" The way you word that makes it sound like "the maintainers" and "T-libs-api" do not consider this "okay". Reading just above the linked comment, however, puts a very different impression of the situation: > We discussed this regression in today's @rust-lang/libs-api team meeting, and agree there's nothing to change on Rust's end. Those repos that have an old version of time in a lockfile will need to u…
Thanks for clarifying. I took a look as well, and the very first reply confirms your opinion and that of the GP's parent. Plenty of downvotes and comments that come after criticizing the maintainers, "I am not sure how @rust-lang/libs-api can look at 5400 regressions and say "eh, that's fine"." Not sure why people are trying to cover this up.
It's not covering I up. The people that commented, including the one you quote are part of the project.