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5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

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Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#51

Post by sheepdestroyer »

msh wrote: post #44
kelnos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1Gbps down, and the only application I've found to saturate it is downloads from USENET (and with that I need quite a few connections downloading different chunks simultaneously to achieve it). I have never come remotely close to downloading anything else -- including games -- at 1Gbps. The source side certainly has the available pipe, but most (all?) providers see little upside to allowing one client/connecti…

Steam and the ps5 store can fill out my 1 gigabits connection.

Steam can fill up much more

I'm getting my Steam games at 2Gbps, and I am suspecting that my aging ISP's "box" is to blame for the cap (didn't want to pay my ISP for the new box that officially supports 8Gbps symmetrical, and just got a SFP+ adapter for the old one). I pay 39€/M for what is supposed to go "up to" 8Gbps/500Mbps on that old box.

Games from Google Drive mirrors are coming at full speed too. Nice when dling that new Skyrim VR 90GB mod pack refresh

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#52

Post by [deleted] »

supertrope wrote: post #15
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5G is 1ms I have never seen this. Where do I have to get 5G service to see these latencies?

1ms to the cell tower. Even on fiber Internet there’s still single digit ms latency to servers in the same metro area. Only T-Mobile has deployed 5G SA (standalone). ATT and Verizon use 5G NSA (non standalone) which is a 4G control channel bonded with 5G channels so it has 4G latency.

[deleted]

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#53

Post by refulgentis »

ianburrell wrote: post #9
kfarr wrote: post #5

I was hoping to see some mention of latency. Agree with the premise that for most consumer applications we don’t need much more wireless throughput but latency still seems way worse than Ethernet heyday times in college

LTE latency is 20-50ms, 5G is 1ms, Gigabit Ethernet is less than 1ms, Wifi is 2-3ms. Overall latency is more about distance, 300km is 1ms, number of hops, and response times. With mobile, I bet contention and poor signal are more of an issue. 5G is a noticeable improvement over LTE, and I am not sure they can do much better.

This is blatantly false. I will bet many $$$ that no one in this thread has ever gotten 1ms.

If you search "5g latency", Google's AI answer says 1 ms, followed by another quote lift from Thales Group™ saying 4G was 20 ms and 5G is 1ms.

Once you scroll past the automated attempts, you start getting real info.

Actual data is in the "SpeedTest Award Report" PDF, retrieved from https://www.speedtest.net/awards/united_states/ via https://www.speedtest.net/awards/reports/2024/2024_UnitedSta....

Spoiler: 23 ms median for fastest provider, T-mobile.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#54

Post by kelnos »

crazygringo wrote: post #37
ctoth wrote: post #12

Tell me you've never backed up a NAS or downloaded a multi-hundred-gigabyte game without telling me!

You shouldn't be doing either of things over mobile, except as a last resort. The article is about mobile specifically.

For practical purposes I agree, but in principle, why not? Especially in places where land-based ISP choice is not abundant or have crap speeds.

For example, my only choice is Comcast's 1.2Gbps/25Mbps service. If I need faster upload I have to tether to my phone. And I rarely get anywhere near that full 1.2Gbps down.

And there are people in areas even less well served by traditional ISPs where their primary Internet connection is wireless.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#55

Post by BenjiWiebe »

refulgentis wrote: post #53
ianburrell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTE latency is 20-50ms, 5G is 1ms, Gigabit Ethernet is less than 1ms, Wifi is 2-3ms. Overall latency is more about distance, 300km is 1ms, number of hops, and response times. With mobile, I bet contention and poor signal are more of an issue. 5G is a noticeable improvement over LTE, and I am not sure they can do much better.

This is blatantly false. I will bet many $$$ that no one in this thread has ever gotten 1ms. If you search "5g latency", Google's AI answer says 1 ms, followed by another quote lift from Thales Group™ saying 4G was 20 ms and 5G is 1ms. Once you scroll past the automated attempts, you start getting real info. Actual data is in the "SpeedTest Award Report" PDF, retrieved from https://www.speedtest.net/awards/united_sta…

Latency to where? Speedtest servers or cell towers?

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#56

Post by harrall »

reaperducer wrote: post #42
harrall wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5G can be extremely fast. I get 600 MBit over cellular at home. …and we only pay for 500 MBit for my home fiber. (Granted, also 500 Mbit upload.) (T-Mobile, Southern California)

5G can be extremely fast. I get 600 MBit over cellular at home. Is your T-Mobile underprovisioned? Where I am, T-Mobile 5G is 400Mbps at 2am, but slows to 5-10Mbps on weekdays at lunchtime and during rush hours, and on weekends when the bars are full. Not to mention that the T-Mobile Home Internet router either locks up, or reboots itself at least twice a day. I put up with the inconvenience because it's either $55 t…

Probably. My area used to be a T-Mobile dead zone 5 years ago.

I also have Verizon.

Choice of service varies based on location heavily from my experience. I’m a long time big time camper and I’ve driven through most corners of most Western states:

- 1/3 will have NO cellular service

- 1/3 will have ONLY Verizon. If T-Mobile comes up, it’s unusable

- 1/3 remaining will have both T-Mobile and Verizon

My Verizon is speed capped so I can’t compare that. T-Mobile works better in more urban areas for me, but it’s unpredictable. In a medium sized costal town in Oregon, Verizon might be better but I will then get half gigabit T-Mobile in a different coastal town in California.

One thing I have learned is that those coverage maps are quite accurate.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#57

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

pak9rabid wrote: post #32
maxsilver wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Transmitting high-end 4K video today requires 15 Mb/s, according to Netflix. It doesn't really change their argument, but to be fair, Netflix has some of the lowest picture quality of any major streaming service on the market, their version of "high-end 4K" is so heavily compressed, it routinely looks worse than a 15 year old 1080p Blu-Ray. "High-end" 4K video (assuming HEVC) should really be targeting 30 Mb/s aver…

Not to mention I doubt they're even including the bandwidth necessary for 5.1 DD+ audio.

Audio doesn't require high data rates. 6 streams of uncompressed 16-bit 48 kHz PCM is 4.6 Mb/s. Compression knocks that down into insignificance.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#58

Post by jfengel »

James_K wrote: post #40
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's any of that have to do with 5G? On 2 bars of 5G right now and I get 650Mbit download speed, it's significantly faster than 4G.

The last bit is just stuff I wanted to whine about. I obviously know it is faster, you don't need to explain that concept. I have just never had need of any significant internet speed on my phone. I don't download things, and only sometimes stream video. Most of the time I am just checking emails, or calendars, or something trivial like that. Unless I do some kind of benchmark, I can't notice the difference between 4…

It would matter more if you were in a crowded place, with more users taking up the spectrum. But yeah, as with computer speed, ordinary applications maxed out a while back.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#59

Post by __alexs »

kelnos wrote: post #41
dale_glass wrote: post #36

Higher bandwidths are good to have. They're great for rare, exceptional circumstances. 10G internet doesn't make your streaming better, but downloads the latest game much faster. It makes for much less painful transfer of a VM image from a remote datacenter to a local machine. Which is good and bad. The good part is that it makes it easier for the ISPs to provide -- most people won't be filling that 10G pipe, so you…

I have 1Gbps down, and the only application I've found to saturate it is downloads from USENET (and with that I need quite a few connections downloading different chunks simultaneously to achieve it). I have never come remotely close to downloading anything else -- including games -- at 1Gbps. The source side certainly has the available pipe, but most (all?) providers see little upside to allowing one client/connecti…

Steam downloads can easily max 1Gbps for me.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#60

Post by numpad0 »

chris_va wrote: post #24

With 5G, I have to downgrade to LTE constantly to avoid packet loss in urban canyons. Given the even higher frequencies proposed for 6G, I suspect it will be mostly useless. Now, it's possible that that raw GB/s with unobstructed LoS is the underlying optimization metric driving these standards, but I would assume it's something different (e.g. tower capex per connected user).

There seem to be some integration issues in 5G Non-Standalone equipment and existing network. Standalone or not, 5G outside of millimeter wavelength bands("mmWave") should behave like an all-around pure upgrade compared to 4G with no downsides, in theory.
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