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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#411

Post by ferfumarma »

hajile wrote: post #377
xenago wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the exact same. Marcan has done amazing work, and his random blog entries etc have saved me hours of debugging time in the past. But jeez, it is really painful to see him say absolute nonsense like "If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas." - he has gotta Stop Posting and keep those kinds of thoughts away from his keyboard.

If Linus thinks that the social media angle is wrong, he should defuse situations before they become explosive because even if one of the devs didn't bring up the drama, there are dozens of news companies that would have printed up articles the second they found the discussion anyway. Linus should have stepped in long before a maintainer blew their stack and started throwing out ultimatums. Once that happened, Linus…

> Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he claims.

That is really an apt point. You can't condition people one way, and tell them to do the opposite.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#412

Post by soraminazuki »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #394
e40 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Threatening a social media campaign to out people is completely toxic behaviour. This is a long-term contributor who is perhaps a bit abrasive, not Jimmy fucking Saville. I'm no where near in the loop on this, but that sounds incredibly toxic. Are there some good links to summarize this? EDIT: OK, these are fully enough to allow me to understand the issue. Marcan: https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/208e1fc3-cfc…

[flagged]

The dirty laundry of the entire kernel community not immediately knuckling under and implementing a rather long list of technical changes in the preferred way of one specific individual? That's an unreasonable take. It would be disastrous for all of us if the project ever went that way, considering the importance of Linux today. It's not like I disagree with some of the points that Marcan raised, but others have equally valid concerns as well. However, he wants to get discussion and compromise out the window and go straight to social media drama. That's never okay.

And please, stop using the concept of ad hominems to selectively justify blatant abuse. That's not what the term is about.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#414

Post by melodyogonna »

gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

Why would he make such blanket decision on something he does not completely understand?

The maintainers of core subsystems are the people he trusts, at least trusts as much as you can in this space. He'll take their opinions before anyone else, since they know best about the subsystems they maintain.

To get Linux to overrule them you not only need to come up with very very convincing technical argument, you have to make sure you also posses the depth and competence required to maintain any such subsystem if the maintainers rage quit. Because you see, maintainers of these subsystems resigning is the bigger blow

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#415

Post by gpm »

cycomanic wrote: post #357
arp242 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? Because "keep the wrappers in your code" and "do that in your driver so that you have to do it instead of spreading this" doesn't sound like that.

He said explicitely: >Every additional bit that another language creeps in drastically reduces the maintainability of the kernel as an integrated project. The only reason Linux managed to survive so long is by not having internal boundaries, and adding another language completely breaks this. You might not like my answer, but I will do everything I can do to stop this. I think that clearly means he is out to sabotage…

The end of the paragraph also emphasized the point

> I do not want it anywhere near a huge C code base that I need to maintain.

Link to mailing list: https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250131075751.GA16720@lst.de/

This was also on a patch that did "keep the wrappers in [rust-folder, not DMA] code". Arp242's interpretation isn't just belied by the direct words of the maintainer, it's belied by the fact that the code the maintainer rejected was exactly what Arp242 is suggesting the maintainer was asking for.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#416

Post by int_19h »

johndunne wrote: post #336
cyberax wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally called "Rust" a "cancer".

I beleive he clarified in the same sentence that he was not calling the language Rust cancer... to quote "where this cancer explicitly is a cross-language codebase and not Rust itself, just to escape the flameware brigade"

So, to be more specific, he called Rust in Linux kernel source a cancer.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#417

Post by sandywaffles »

josefx wrote: post #333
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the current drama, I'm glad someone of his stature agrees with and can call out the horrible processes and tooling involved in the kernel. Using email and a pile of hacks to mess around with patches just sounds nuts and makes it so much harder to understand or contribute. I don't think decentralized necessitates such a terrible workflow - you can run a local website with a distributed DB, distributed git forg…

Afaik Linus tried Github in the past, but had several significant complaints about it hiding information, messing with basic git operations, generating bad commit messages, etc. . So it is not as if they wouldn't use something better, there just isn't anything that has feature parity with a workflow they have been optimizing for decades.

> [..] a workflow they have been optimizing for decades.

it sounds the opposite of optimized to me. Unless we're optimizing for something other than developer experience and efficiency?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#418

Post by ouraf »

dralley wrote: post #63
nialv7 wrote: post #43

Quoting from this thread https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/Z6OzgBYZNJPr_ZD1@phen... > Simona Vetter: (addressing Hector) ...Now I'm left with the unlikely explanation that you just like thundering in as the cavalry, fashionably late, maximally destructive, because it entertains the masses on fedi or reddit or wherever. I have no idea what you're trying to achieve here, I really don't get it, but I am for sure fe…

Sima also went way too far with some of her comments this morning: https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2b9b75d1-eb8e-494a-b0... Quoting > Being toxic on the right side of an argument is still toxic, [...] unironically, immediately after saying @marcan > and if that then causes you to ragequit, because you can't actually deal with the heat you've been dishing out coming back around the corner: fuck off ...is quite…

Is Sima paid for his contributions?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#419

Post by lonjil »

melodyogonna wrote: post #414
gary_0 wrote: post #27

The Rust drama is an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds. Instead of decisively saying "no, never" or "yes, make it so," he has consistently equivocated on the Rust issue. Given the crisis of confidence among a sizeable (and very vocal) contingent of the Linux community, that decision has backfired horribly. And it's quite out of character for Linus not to have a blazingly clear opinion. (We all know his stan…

Why would he make such blanket decision on something he does not completely understand? The maintainers of core subsystems are the people he trusts, at least trusts as much as you can in this space. He'll take their opinions before anyone else, since they know best about the subsystems they maintain. To get Linux to overrule them you not only need to come up with very very convincing technical argument, you have to m…

> The maintainers of core subsystems are the people he trusts, at least trusts as much as you can in this space. He'll take their opinions before anyone else, since they know best about the subsystems they maintain

But there were no technical arguments against the Rust wrapper. And in any case, the Rust wrapper isn't in that subsystem, it just uses that subsystem. Hellwig's argument was nothing more than "there shouldn't be a second language in the kernel". He had nothing specific about the DMA wrapper. And Linus has already approved Rust in the Linux kernel, so what's the problem? Why can't Linus put his foot down on an issue that he has already decided on?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#420

Post by alberth »

> I am supported exclusively by donations, which incidentally, have been steadily decreasing since the start of the Asahi Linux project. The project has zero corporate sponsorship.

People’s donations to Asahi Linux have decreased, according to Hector from this thread [0]

Here’s how to donate: https://asahilinux.org/support/

[0] https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/c5a49bcb-45cf-4295-80...

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