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The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

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Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#151

Post by smackfu »

cletus wrote: post #120

There are two issues that are coming up here: sandboxing and paid upgrades. They are quite different. As a consumer I am completely for sandboxing for myself and for other consumers. In a world where malware is increasingly a problem sandboxed apps will become the norm. That's the reality we live in. Sandboxing being a requirement means that I can fairly safely install anything from the (future) Mac App Store. The OP…

>The OP correctly points out that certain system utilities cannot be sold this way.

It's not that simple. Arbitrary features of your favorite app may not be allowed on the App Store just because Apple didn't feel it worthwhile to create an entitlement for that feature. Everything they add has a cost and it's very easy to say "that's not important."

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#152

Post by spaghetti »

illumin8 wrote: post #59
Terretta wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried purchasing the "latest" version of World of Warcraft? You can't. There is no standalone "latest version". You have to purchase the original, and each version since, and finally the current version. Correlate those game content / game mechanics updates with In-App Purchases, and it's clear how someone could offer "major upgrades" if they stop thinking in terms of version numbers and start thinking in te…

Developers could very well re-architect their application so that when you download the update to v2, you have to unlock the new features with an in-app purchase, but to be honest, it's a lot of extra work for the developer, and there is no way to make it less painful for the users, who will feel like they are getting nickel and dimed by the developer. Also, for those users that are brand new on the v2 version, it's…

Why lower the price of the initial purchase? Just keep it simple: basic app is $10 forever. The basic version of the app comes with some basic useful features. Premium features become available via in-app-purchase as the developer makes them. Users can choose to use the premium features or not. Bug-fix updates are just free as they should be IMO.

Using a theoretical video editor as an example: $10 gets you basic clip cropping, placing clips next to each other, background music, importing, exporting and titles. So a basically useful app. Later the developer updates the app with a few bug-fixes and a premium "transitions" feature that's available via IAP. This update is of course free to download. So existing users get the bug-fixes for free. Anyone who want the premium feature just unlocks it and uses it indefinitely.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#153

Post by jarek »

spaghetti wrote: post #131
modernerd wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New users who purchase the updated app would have to pay again to get the latest features.

I think the following set-up avoids that problem: app is always the same price to download and has a few basic features unlocked. App has an upgrade view or screen where users can unlock additional features via in-app-purchase. It works like this: developer releases the app for, say, $10. People buy it and use the basic features for a while. So far there's no upgrades available. Developer codes up a premium feature a…

This does away with everyone-is-on-newest-version paradigm of automatic updates that makes support easy - in fact, it makes it much worse. Instead of five old versions of the app, you might have 1 base + 12 permutations = 13 different combinations of functionality to support.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#154

Post by radley »

spudlyo wrote: post #99
Aloisius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be the day I go back to Linux.

I thought the same thing as I was reading John Siracusa's review of Mountain Lion. My stomach sunk when I saw the default 'gatekeeper' options. [ ] Mac App Store [x] Mac App store and identified developers [ ] Anywhere Seems likely at some point down the road the third option will no longer exist. My next project is getting Linux to run on an old MBP. I still love their hardware, but OSX is getting fuckin' uppity. I…

I seriously doubt it. Can you imagine Adobe's Creative Suite in the Mac App store? Never going to happen.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#155

Post by spaghetti »

lukifer wrote: post #117
pgeorgi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea to have new features exist as unlockable extras actually is an advantage to users: if they don't need it, they still get updates for the feature set they bought. So all that's missing is a way to give customers of "date X or later" unlockable features as part of the baseline sale.

Except the developer takes a hit there, too. Given that not everyone needs every feature, users end up subsidizing each other's desired improvements as part of a major upgrade. On top of that, not all features have clear lines that can be drawn around them, technically or marketing-wise. It's a great model for games and certain specific types of apps (Paper is very clever). But to push all apps onto this model is hig…

I'm not sure if the developer necessarily takes a hit. Say I have $15 to spend on a video editing app. $10 for the initial app and $5 for the only premium feature I want results in me giving $15 to the developer (less Apple's cut etc). However if the developer adds 5 new features to the app and I have to choose between buying features that I mostly don't want and can't afford or not spending the money I'll most likey give $0 to the developer.

Similar situation with luxury features on cars: it makes business sense to sell them individually.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#156

Post by js4all »

alex_c wrote: post #147
js4all wrote: post #139

The lack of paid upgrades is irrelevant. I never understood what people are missing here. Apple has shown how to do it: Phase out the old version and offer the new version as a new product.

And lose any app store rankings in the process. A bit similar to launching a new site every time you release a new version of your product.

I see your point. I haven't thought about that.

On a second thought: If your customers are satisfied, they will give good reviews on the the new version and it will regain its rankings. That's a great risk for the developer, I have to admit.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#157

Post by jasomill »

larrik wrote: post #135
pavel_lishin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was painful about it?

Installing software has no consistency. The built-in terminal is basically broken: -page-up and page-down don't work unless you hold shift -It uses CTRL-C instead of Command-C, unlike the rest of the OS. -I still can't find hotkeys to jump to the beginning of end of line, or skip over entire words (home, end, ctrl-arrow in Linux and Windows) Home and End are COMPLETELY USELESS on OS X. I have never, in decades of com…

I frequently want to scroll the display without moving the cursor. As for selecting lines, you do realize that Ctrl+A and Ctrl+E work everywhere in OS X, right? Generally whenever I select an entire line, I do so to erase, move, or duplicate it, and Cocoa's Emacs-style shortcuts are much nicer than Windows/CUA-style shortcuts for these operations (and difficult to support on systems where Ctrl is used for menu command accelerators).

Far more frequently, I want to delete from the current cursor position to the end of a line, and Ctrl+K is much nicer than Shift+End, Backspace.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#158

Post by jarek »

js4all wrote: post #156
alex_c wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And lose any app store rankings in the process. A bit similar to launching a new site every time you release a new version of your product.

I see your point. I haven't thought about that. On a second thought: If your customers are satisfied, they will give good reviews on the the new version and it will regain its rankings. That's a great risk for the developer, I have to admit.

This approach also forces the developer to build in a notification system to tell people the new app is out and how to find it.

I guess you could can make a small update to the 'old' app that will pop up a window notifying of the new one when the old app first starts, but that seems rather kludgy.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#159

Post by franzus »

jawngee wrote: post #26

I'm pulling my video editor Shave ( http://shavevideo.com ) out of the Mac App Store for these reasons, though most specifically the lack of paid upgrades. For a $10 video editor that, quite frankly, beats the pants off a lot of crap out there for day to day editing tasks, I can't afford to devote the time and resources it requires to maintain it without it having a baseline level of income. Not having an upgrade pat…

One of the most annoying things about the app store are the review times. With our app (http://armadilloapp.com) we had to wait over 5 weeks to get into the store. 2 weeks till the first review, then there was a rejection where I had consult Apple's DTS which took another week to get resolved plus another 2 weeks waiting for a new review.

Now we have version 1.0 in the app store and have version 1.1 waiting for review since almost 3 weeks. In v1.1 we have added some new features people were requesting and a few minor bug fixes.

Now all we can do is tell our customers: "Version 1.1 will be out soon - as soon as Apple decides it's time for a review".

It's really a shame that Apple takes 30% of our sales for such a bad service.

Re: The Mac App Store’s future of irrelevance

#160

Post by jacobolus »

larrik wrote: post #135
pavel_lishin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was painful about it?

Installing software has no consistency. The built-in terminal is basically broken: -page-up and page-down don't work unless you hold shift -It uses CTRL-C instead of Command-C, unlike the rest of the OS. -I still can't find hotkeys to jump to the beginning of end of line, or skip over entire words (home, end, ctrl-arrow in Linux and Windows) Home and End are COMPLETELY USELESS on OS X. I have never, in decades of com…

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/site/cocoa-text.html
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