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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#441

Post by TrueDuality »

bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens. Not supporting cloud services wouldn't be sufficient to avoid the compliance requirement, they would have to formerly stop doing business in the UK.

Looking at the market size that might be a decision that Apple is willing to make as it would most likely be a temporary stick. The government can spin it anyway they want, but Apple devices do not work basically at all without the deep integration of their services. A geoblock would effectively mean UK citizens would be left with unusable devices and I can't see the resulting outrage being directed exclusively at Apple.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out for sure.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#442

Post by robertlagrant »

bluehatbrit wrote: post #172
wkat4242 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Tories are not in power. Can't labour just repeal it?

Labour have no problem with it, just the same as the Online Safety Act which is causing chaos right now. They're fine with the legislation and have never expressed a desire to see it repealed. They didn't even do much to prevent it in the first place. This is what the parent comment is getting at when they say "Tory-lite".

What they're not getting at is that this isn't particularly a Tory thing.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#443

Post by convolvatron »

docmars wrote: post #399
Spoom wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, "Apple refuses to hand over private data to government at cost of UK business" is a pretty good headline.

Give Apple a big enough incentive to negotiate with and they may very well cave. If I've learned anything about corporations, it's that money and incentives always speak louder than their purported values.

this isn't apple weighing ethics against revenue. this is apple being forced to decide how much their pro-privacy marketing is really getting them in the market.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#444

Post by [deleted] »

hk1337 wrote: post #284
bnjms wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good. We know they collude with US intelligence serviceUS

By collude, you mean responding to subpoenas they are legally obliged to respond to?

[deleted]

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#445

Post by koiueo »

aunty_helen wrote: post #357
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

Because russia is a bag guy? (Idk about China, but considering they support russia...)

Have you been living under a rock?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#446

Post by robertlagrant »

tim333 wrote: post #340
briandear wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. The Tories aren’t in power yet you want to attribute this to “Tory-lite?” It’s the Labour Party that is in charge, so why not put the blame on the actual perpetrators? Is it because you don’t want Labour getting blamed? I am confused. The Labour Party is the one jailing people for speech, so it follows that they would want backdoors into iCloud so they can better investigate ThoughtCrime. The director of public…

This stuff started from the Online Safety Act 2023 passed under Rishi Sunak's Tory government. For some reason Americans, including Musk, go all partisan and feel the need to blame speech restriction on the lefty party but it's not what happened.

No, it started with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), passed under Tony Blair's Labour government.

I'll skip the same extreme partisan rant, but replacing Musk with Soros or whoever.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#447

Post by doublerabbit »

robertlagrant wrote: post #436
doublerabbit wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. We should be banding together to make the next best thing but people are lazy, but who can blame them? Easier to just press the big red NetFlix button and then order food on GrubEats. I'm being realistic, in the capitalist world we live in unless you have assets, power your worth nothing. You have no voice, no power, ever. Where's the futuristic project that saves the world? I'm sure the next JavaScript l…

> I'm being realistic, in the capitalist world we live in unless you have assets your worth nothing. You have no voice, no power, ever. Describe a better (on average) world and let's try it.

Less convenience, more care. More respect, less extreme actions. Effective penalities issued to those who break the rules.

A fine to a $multinational company isn't punishment. Strip their assets from.

More respect for one another would uphold so much more positivity in this world, but no we must judge and align folk in to groups. We are still divided by diversity. It's 2025 and we still have issues over someone being black, white or in-between.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#448

Post by robertlagrant »

doublerabbit wrote: post #447
robertlagrant wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm being realistic, in the capitalist world we live in unless you have assets your worth nothing. You have no voice, no power, ever. Describe a better (on average) world and let's try it.

Less convenience, more care. More respect, less extreme actions. Effective penalities issued to those who break the rules. A fine to a $multinational company isn't punishment. Strip their assets from. More respect for one another would uphold so much more positivity in this world, but no we must judge and align folk in to groups. We are still divided by diversity. It's 2025 and we still have issues over someone being…

I don't know how any of that would translate into a replacement for capitalism, except for capitalism with less plastic?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#449

Post by dathinab »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

> If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile?

nothing

the first precedence of not-draft law here was Cloud Act I think

through I would be surprised if China doesn't "de-facto" requires Chineese companies operating outside of China (including Subsidiaries) to cooperate with their secret service in whatever way they want

and if we go back to the "crypto wars" of the ~2000th then there is a lot of precedence of similar law _ideas_ by the US which where turned down

similar we can't say for sure that there aren't secret US court orders which already did force apple to do "something like that" for the FBI or similar, SURE there is a lot of precedence of Apple pushing back against backdoor when it comes to police and offline device encryption, but one thing is in the public and the other fully in secret with gag orders and meant for usage in secret never seeing the light of courts so while it's somewhat unlikely it would be foolish to just assume it isn't the case, especially if we go forward one or two years with the current government...

Anyway UK might realize that now they have left the US they have very little power to force US tech giants to do anything _in the UK_ not even speaking about regulation which is a direct attack on the sovereignty of other states to own/control/decide about their population(s data).

IMHO ignoring the US for a moment because they are in chaos the EU, or at least some key EU states should make a statement that a UK backdoor allowing UK to access EU citizen data would be classified as espionage and isn't permittable if Apple wants to operate in the EU (but formulated to make it clear it's not to put pressure on Apple but on the UK). Sadly I don't see this happening as there are two many politcans which want laws like that, too. Often due to not understanding the implications undermining encryption has on national security, industry espionage and even protection of democracy as a whole... Sometimes also because they are greedy corrupt lobbyist from the industry which produces mass surveillance tools.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#450

Post by 8338550bff96 »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

At what point is this just extortionary cash grab from U.S. tech companies?

Want to fund some expensive grand program? Find a reason to fine U.S. companies.

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