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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#191

Post by bluGill »

amelius wrote: post #170
bilekas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

> I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? Basically by saying that if they don't comply, they can't do business in the UK.

There are lots of different ways to do business. UK is unlikely to be able to ban the iphone, and I doubt Apple has much business in the UK. As such they can lay off all workers in the UK "because of legal issues" and the workers feel the pain. They can still sell in the UK through third parties, and go to the EU if you need warranty work

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#192

Post by luqtas »

jeroenhd wrote: post #99
reify wrote: post #71

I doubt very much if any terrorist, criminal or child abuser is going to use any google or apple cloud service to back up their files. Anyone with a fundamental understanding of online privacy and security would encrypt any files prior to uploading them to the cloud rendering any back doors and access to those files useless and toothless. I dont use any of these services. I have never understood the thinking around u…

Hamas switched from smartphones, with encrypted messengers to pagers, a communication device with encryption so weak it may as well not be there. Criminals get caught because they used plain phone calls and texts _all the time_. Hell, child abusers are regularly reported to the police because someone saw a suspicious picture on their phone when scrolling through the gallery. Crime and an understanding of cybersecurit…

there are dumb people out there but can you sum up (just talking about illegal drugs) an industry that makes $360 billion per year? Brazilian ghettos have army grade weapons like anti-aircraft missiles [0]

psychopathy is a mental disease who impair people to control their impulses/defected judgment; often these are permanent personality traits, which either will let them sit in a prison for the rest of their lives depending on what they did or they will be liberated if they get caught with a high chance of another incidence... search for papers/work from Kent Kiehl if you are interested in this type of stuff

[0] https://www.globalissues.org/news/2009/10/30/3330

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#193

Post by lofaszvanitt »

reify wrote: post #71

I doubt very much if any terrorist, criminal or child abuser is going to use any google or apple cloud service to back up their files. Anyone with a fundamental understanding of online privacy and security would encrypt any files prior to uploading them to the cloud rendering any back doors and access to those files useless and toothless. I dont use any of these services. I have never understood the thinking around u…

The average people have zero idea about these things. They just use phones, and do not care how they function, what they do in the background.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#194

Post by mohamedattahri »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #186
bilekas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

> I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? By banning Apple from doing business in the UK. The US used a similar strategy decades ago to break Swiss Bank Secrecy laws (either Swiss banks had to give up the info or they were going to be kicked out of the US).

Yep, and the US had a lot more leverage; out of the US translates into no access to US dollars either directly or via a correspondent bank, which essentially means bankruptcy.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#195

Post by throw0101c »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #186
bilekas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prevent the UK authorities from interfering with their activities I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? To my layman understanding, this reads the same as if China said : "Meta, Tesla, Valve etc has entities in China therefore we get to see all data they store in the EU and the US. The UK has Zero jurisdiction in Ireland for example where a lot of EU data may be stored.

> I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? By banning Apple from doing business in the UK. The US used a similar strategy decades ago to break Swiss Bank Secrecy laws (either Swiss banks had to give up the info or they were going to be kicked out of the US).

> By banning Apple from doing business in the UK.

To use poker terminology: I think that if the UK made this bet that Apple would call.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#196

Post by gambiting »

galangalalgol wrote: post #128
maeil wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? If you voted for this Tory-lite government, then you can stop voting for any future Tory-lite governments. If you did not, there's not much you can do in practice without devoting your life to it.

Coupd protest on weekends and holidays as a hobby, bring a Bluetooth speaker and blast the kinks.

Well, in the UK just planning a non-violent protest can get you 5 years in prison as many people have already discovered. Protesting has been pretty much made illegal by a very broad legislation that defines any protest that causes "disruption" as illegal - what "disruption" means is up to interpretation of course.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#198

Post by botanical76 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #137
captainbland wrote: post #129

Given recent polling, we have to assume that what is MI5's today will be Reform's tomorrow. We have to ask what our government and judiciary are doing putting our privacy in the hands of the far-right.

I never understood this kinds of arguments... both sides want to read your private data, but it's bad if 'the other side' does it? It's your current MI5/government that wants access to apples data.

My interpretation is that it is an argument against trust in authority in privacy discussions.

A: Privacy matters! B: Why should you care if you have nothing to hide? A: If you have nothing to hide, then give me the password to your Facebook. B: I don't trust you with that, but I trust my governments and relevant authorities.

The point is that B's faith in authority is flawed as the "powers that be" are an eternally shifting target. By agreeing to government surveillance, you place trust in every subsequent government, even the ones you would rather not.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#199

Post by throw0101c »

idle_zealot wrote: post #144
p0w3n3d wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most horrible part of the discussion we're making is that we're arguing that UK intelligence should be able to access only UK related data, and not that UK intelligence should not undermine privacy of people

The Overton Window has shifted.

PSA:

    The Overton window is the range of subjects and arguments politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time.[1] It is also known as the window of discourse.

    […]

    The political commentator Joshua Treviño has postulated that the six degrees of acceptance of public ideas are roughly:[7]
    
    unthinkable
    radical
    acceptable
    sensible
    popular
    policy
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
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