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Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

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Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#121

Post by alephnerd »

jfkrrorj wrote: post #107
alephnerd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yet at the end of the day Electric Bikes are not treated as EVs in colloquial conversation and are not a direct substitute for a Car in most cases. And I'm sure yk this too.

It is direct substitute! You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India!

> You can absolutely carry family of 5 and furniture on bike! See Denmark and India!

I can't speak to Denmark, but in India people resort to buying electric bikes because of income. The moment they earn enough to pay for a car loan, they go for it, as people in my ancestral town have done.

That said, even in India, most 2 wheeler/electric bike sales are largely being driven by Ola - India's Uber/Tesla/AWS - because they are subsidizing Ola drivers to buy Ola Electric bikes. And that is what is driving most E-Bike sales in India.

That, even in India the sale of electric bikes has fallen significantly [0]

At the end of the day, in a market like India, if you can afford a car, you buy a car. And if you're buying a car in a market like India, you'd tend to prefer an SUV due to the negative stigma against sedans ("sedans are for p*ssies" mindset is the norm, and drives the popularity of vehicles is HC as the Mahindra Thar) [1][2]

The same mentality exists in the Indian 2-Wheeler/Bike community, with the KTM being treated as the gold standard.

The same "macho" style mentality that makes Pickup trucks popular in North America and Thailand is the same one that exists in India for SUVs (ICE or Electric) or Two Wheelers.

IMO, EVs and especially EV Sedans have done well in the Chinese market because the status symbol ICE car in China has historically been the Audi A6/A8, but in India the equivalent ICE car status symbol wise has been the Jaguar Land Rover [3]

[0] - https://www.cnbctv18.com/auto/electric-two-wheeler-sales-dro...

[1] - https://motoroctane.com/news/267798-why-is-everyone-buying-s...

[2] - https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/why-the-mahindra-tha...

[3] - https://www.cartoq.com/indian-politicians-and-their-land-rov...

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#122

Post by ZeroGravitas »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #84
schmidp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s ridiculous. Can you name examples where he is signaling Nazism (except the Salut). Have you watched any long form podcasts of him?

Dude literally had to go tour death camps to do a PR rehab after endorsing antisemitic conspiracies. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68055368

And the wife of an elderly holocaust survivor being honoured during that visit called him sociopathic as he seemed unmoved by the experience and more interested in a photo op.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#123

Post by lenerdenator »

vichle wrote: post #99
josephcsible wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if this were true, I'd be willing to pay more to avoid financially supporting the CCP.

There are a lot of people in Europe that prefer CCP over what the republican party has become.

That's what they think, at least.

When push comes to shove, it'll be less clear.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#124

Post by tim333 »

Vaguely related, Paul Graham tweeted "I worry Elon has no idea how much he has damaged his personal brand ...", re UK stuff and Elon posted a pages of text rant as a result. Not sure if it was written by him or Grok. I worry Elon's going a bit bonkers with drugs or whatever.

Conversation here: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1879785727468163505

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#125

Post by alephnerd »

tim333 wrote: post #124

Vaguely related, Paul Graham tweeted "I worry Elon has no idea how much he has damaged his personal brand ...", re UK stuff and Elon posted a pages of text rant as a result. Not sure if it was written by him or Grok. I worry Elon's going a bit bonkers with drugs or whatever. Conversation here: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1879785727468163505

On that note, I've always wondered whether a lot of this is because of his Apartheid-era South African upbringing.

Unlike a lot of White South Africans he's English, and they were viewed as outsiders by a number of Afrikaners. Same with with David Sacks being Jewish South African and Peter Thiel being the kid of German expats in ZA.

On the other hand, Roelof Botha tends to remain outside the political limelight despite being from Afrikaner political royalty (his granddad was the Foreign Minister towards the end of Apartheid).

Maybe Musk, Sacks', and Thiel's anger and political weirdness is because they felt like the perpetual outsider no matter where they were.

Musk, Sacks, Thiel, and Botha all must have been 2nd or 3rd degree connects well before the PayPal mafia even started because their parents were all at the top of the social and economic strata among White South Africans (same handful of private schools, country clubs, etc)

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#126

Post by hagbard_c »

jfkrrorj wrote: post #69
woodpanel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely uninformed statement. Its impressive what they achieved in such a short time but neither the xiaomi nor the BYD Seal is anywhere close to what it is mimicking.

It just shows how uninformed you are! BYD Seal is 2000kg car, we do not want that! Europeans want EVs that are maybe 600kg to do shopping and drive around town. 80kms on single charge and 50kmph are quite acceptable parameters. If I can remove car battery, put it on a cart, and take it to my apartment on 10th floor via elevator, even better! I need to charge it over night! If I could spare $50k on new car, I would bu…

Who is we here? Europe is a big place with a lot of countries which are very different from other European countries. Here in Sweden that 600 kg 80 km/charge 50 kmph car would not do so well since it would run out of juice on the way back from the supermarket for a substantial part of the population, it would get stuck in the snow in winter and does not have enough power to keep the interior are a reasonable temperature when outside it is anything but reasonable. It might sell in Stockholm but then only to affluent citizens who'd use it next to their other two or three vehicles.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#127

Post by rsynnott »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #50
throwaway5752 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't need or want FSD. They want an actual steering wheel and an actual stalk in order to activate turn signals. They want reliable well-made electric vehicles that don't take long to repair. Musk has spent many billions of dollars building something his target market doesn't require. Tesla does not currently have product-market fit. Musk should resign his board and CEO positions and stop interfering wit…

>Tesla does not currently have product-market fit. Yet, it sells the best selling car on Earth.

That’s largely as a result of its branding strategy (single brand, only two mass-market models). There are 19 production vehicles based on VW’s MEB platform, say, most of them very similar. This is fairly typical; all of the big car manufacturers have at least a couple of brands, and many models, and some (notably VW, Stellantis, GM) have _dozens_ of brands, largely with shared platforms.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#128

Post by tim333 »

alephnerd wrote: post #125
tim333 wrote: post #124

Vaguely related, Paul Graham tweeted "I worry Elon has no idea how much he has damaged his personal brand ...", re UK stuff and Elon posted a pages of text rant as a result. Not sure if it was written by him or Grok. I worry Elon's going a bit bonkers with drugs or whatever. Conversation here: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1879785727468163505

On that note, I've always wondered whether a lot of this is because of his Apartheid-era South African upbringing. Unlike a lot of White South Africans he's English, and they were viewed as outsiders by a number of Afrikaners. Same with with David Sacks being Jewish South African and Peter Thiel being the kid of German expats in ZA. On the other hand, Roelof Botha tends to remain outside the political limelight despi…

I know Must talks about being bullied at school. I'm sure that contributes.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#129

Post by rsynnott »

_t9ow wrote: post #119
ubermonkey wrote: post #43

My neighbor -- a very earnest, smart, progressive 27 year old working in alternative energy -- bought one just before the election. His deposit went in sometime in the spring. He was super excited about it at first, but the spring in his step is much reduced now. I feel bad for him. I mean, true life, I think most people have pretty good experiences with Teslas. The brand was pretty resilient vs. Elon's shenanigans u…

> the spring in his step is much reduced now Musk hasn't suddenly changed in the past few months. His deranged/racist behaviour has been going on for years. What has prompted your neighbour to regret his purchase?

I mean, I think it has become more _visible_. A few years back, you’d only really know about it if you were Very Online. It is now utterly impossible to ignore.

Re: Tesla sales plummet in the UK, France, and Germany

#130

Post by tim333 »

_t9ow wrote: post #119
ubermonkey wrote: post #43

My neighbor -- a very earnest, smart, progressive 27 year old working in alternative energy -- bought one just before the election. His deposit went in sometime in the spring. He was super excited about it at first, but the spring in his step is much reduced now. I feel bad for him. I mean, true life, I think most people have pretty good experiences with Teslas. The brand was pretty resilient vs. Elon's shenanigans u…

> the spring in his step is much reduced now Musk hasn't suddenly changed in the past few months. His deranged/racist behaviour has been going on for years. What has prompted your neighbour to regret his purchase?

The salute definitely upped things a level.
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