Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

neowin.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 288 posts

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#151

Post by mkopec »

deno wrote: post #144
mkopec wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google SafetyNet is basically swiss cheese with lots of bypass solutions for custom ROMs. A TPM may only attest that it has received an expected set of measurements (hashes). As long as discrete TPMs or PCs with unlocked CPUs exist (w/o Boot Guard), one may simply take a TPM and replay "golden" measurements to it. Bypassing this would be trivially easy. A TPM does not have control over execution on the CPU. It only r…

And that’s why Play Integrity is based on hardware attestation and it is no longer a swiss cheese? And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM. You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it. If all DVD players came with watermark detecti…

> If all DVD players came with watermark detection instead of copy protection

That is an enormous "if". Do you think Microsoft is going to or is able to enforce this on every single software provider? Even in your Android example that's just not happening, and you can happily sideload apps. You can still develop your own apps on the same Android phone that you use for banking.

> And sorry but how many people have bypassed Playstations or Switches. This is what you’re talking about. Most people will just accept it.

People accept this with consoles because a console is a device exclusively for consuming media, and all developers apply for a devkit. I just don't see that happening in the PC space. You think Microsoft is suddenly going to dump this on third party software developers and force everyone to go through certification and to buy devkits? Without a mass exodus to Linux?

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#152

Post by greenavocado »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #121
greenavocado wrote: post #32

If you burn an ISO with Rufus it has a checkbox to skip the checks. You can also use the unattended installation system: https://github.com/memstechtips/UnattendedWinstall

Presumably that is going to stop working with new Windows 11 releases.

Only the documentation is disappearing

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#154

Post by gruez »

deno wrote: post #144
mkopec wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google SafetyNet is basically swiss cheese with lots of bypass solutions for custom ROMs. A TPM may only attest that it has received an expected set of measurements (hashes). As long as discrete TPMs or PCs with unlocked CPUs exist (w/o Boot Guard), one may simply take a TPM and replay "golden" measurements to it. Bypassing this would be trivially easy. A TPM does not have control over execution on the CPU. It only r…

And that’s why Play Integrity is based on hardware attestation and it is no longer a swiss cheese? And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM. You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it. If all DVD players came with watermark detecti…

>And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM.

There are TPM 2.0 dTPMs. If the conspiracy is that they want to push people towards "hardware attestation", then they're doing a pretty bad job.

>You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it.

There's no need to "lock down the OS" when there's already a locked down OS on the CPU itself (intel SGX), is way more secure (because it doesn't have a bazillion userspace programs and third party drivers loaded), but for whatever reason gets way less flak than TPM.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#155

Post by modo_mario »

wpm wrote: post #52
beart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is not about functionality. It is about polish, integrations, and troubleshooting. If you assume all your devices and software will work on Linux mint out of the box, great. But they won't. Then you end up spending hours trying to get the 5th mouse button to do what it does automatically in Windows. Sure there's a fancy utility on Linux that supports programming that mouse, good luck getting your…

That’s if you can even connect to the internet! Have an older device? It maybe didn’t come with WiFi, or came with an older card you replaced with a better one. Better hope the distro and version of that distro you picked has a kernel with drivers already baked in! Otherwise it’s off to some random git following some random “download this source” and oh wait I’m not connected to the Internet.

I've had very much the opposite experience with old wifi dongles and the like. I can think of only one example where it was the other way around...but at least i got it working.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#156

Post by yoyohello13 »

lenova wrote: post #113
t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

Long-time Windows user here that made the jump from Windows 11+WSL to Linux a few months ago. After test driving a few distros, I settled on CachyOS (an Arch-based distro)[1]. Performance wise it's smooth as heck, and Geekbench scores show it performing better than Win11 across the board. The default install uses KDE Plasma for its desktop, which is a perfect fit for Windows users like myself in terms of UX/UI. For a…

+1 for only office. When I was a data analyst I made this custom graph in Excel that rendered some lines as speedometers. It calculated the rotation based on the input numbers to align them in the right position. LibreOffice could not handle it (and I don't blame them). I was shocked when I opened the file in OnlyOffice and it worked!

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#157

Post by Karellen »

t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

It's probably worth trying LibreOffice again if your last install was a couple of years ago. They take document compatibility bugs pretty seriously and fix a bunch with every release.

That's probably the easiest step to take next, before looking at virtualization or a full Linux install with Wine.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#158

Post by deno »

mkopec wrote: post #151
deno wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s why Play Integrity is based on hardware attestation and it is no longer a swiss cheese? And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM. You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it. If all DVD players came with watermark detecti…

> If all DVD players came with watermark detection instead of copy protection That is an enormous "if". Do you think Microsoft is going to or is able to enforce this on every single software provider? Even in your Android example that's just not happening, and you can happily sideload apps. You can still develop your own apps on the same Android phone that you use for banking. > And sorry but how many people have byp…

How would you do it if this was the goal? First you introduce TPM to every device under the sun until it’s everywhere, then you just have to flip a switch. You write Patriot Act then stash in the drawer until it’s time...

> you can happily sideload apps.

This is extremely weak argument when the other major platform does not let you do that, right? Sideloading could go away at any moment just like that. That’s my point. There’s nothing technical stopping it.

> People accept this with consoles because a console is a device exclusively for consuming media, and all developers apply for a devkit.

Already Windows has: Smart screen (which requires code signing) and app store. Locking down the OS and Apps is hardly unprecedented. Both Windows and MacOS now have developer modes which is a software devkit equivalent.

> Without a mass exodus to Linux?

That’s why you wait until mass adoption (win11) only then start boiling the frog.

Look, I acknowledge this is slippery slope argument. But the slope is very slippery. Something is clearly going on.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#159

Post by Daunk »

jenscow wrote: post #108
beart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is not about functionality. It is about polish, integrations, and troubleshooting. If you assume all your devices and software will work on Linux mint out of the box, great. But they won't. Then you end up spending hours trying to get the 5th mouse button to do what it does automatically in Windows. Sure there's a fancy utility on Linux that supports programming that mouse, good luck getting your…

"mother" has no need for a 5 button programmable mouse, nor does she have a need for applications beyond the web browser. No troubleshooting required.

I second this. A lot of technical people struggle with Linux, and I think a lot of that is because they have a way of working and they want to force whatever they use to work like that. While less technical people just use whatever they're given. My father and my grandmother both use Linux, and they don't even know it and there are no issues.
Post reply on HN