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Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

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Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#141

Post by butlike »

jenscow wrote: post #108
beart wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is not about functionality. It is about polish, integrations, and troubleshooting. If you assume all your devices and software will work on Linux mint out of the box, great. But they won't. Then you end up spending hours trying to get the 5th mouse button to do what it does automatically in Windows. Sure there's a fancy utility on Linux that supports programming that mouse, good luck getting your…

"mother" has no need for a 5 button programmable mouse, nor does she have a need for applications beyond the web browser. No troubleshooting required.

just dont turn her around and have her be a skeleton, please

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#142

Post by p_ing »

pinoy420 wrote: post #112
t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

Office is moving web based. OWA is first class now, with Outlook New being a thin wrapper around it with some natives. Also their mockups all use macs primarily so “go figure”

There is a long, long road ahead for that to happen. Excel has to not only radically change itself, but so does Power BI. The 3rd party ecosystem has slowly changed from COM add-ins to the JS-based Add-ins, but even then there are many 3rd parties that continue to go the COM route, hence the very long deprecation road for 'legacy' Outlook in the enterprise.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#143

Post by Avamander »

lukeschlather wrote: post #114
Avamander wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you've said does seem plausible. But on the other hand there are valid reasons for requiring a minimum baseline for Windows 11. The TPM requirements for example allow seamless BitLocker (which provides feature-parity with macOS), it allows secure system credential storage (in both consumer and enterprise contexts) and it's also useful for application developers. For example Chrome can defend user data better aga…

The number of functioning computers that are restricted to Windows 10 probably still outnumber the number of computers that can run Windows 11. Most people don't have $500 to drop on a replacement. (Very many of these computers might've been thousands of dollars new and will still outperform the majority of new Windows 11 machines.) Microsoft is just putting a huge environmental waste of a mandated obsolesence tax on…

Sure and the number of computers that can run Linux outperform them both. Maybe you don't need W11?

I also don't think the share of TPM-less computers out there is actually that significant. Most laptops have shipped with one for a long time. Desktops that lack one can often buy one. Which is way cheaper than a new PC should you need W11. (I also suspect there are options way cheaper than $500 as well.)

Saying that not being able to run W11 turns something into e-waste is frankly rather crazy. Neither do they want that hardware destroyed.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#144

Post by deno »

mkopec wrote: post #130
deno wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes TPM → OS Integrity (dm-/fs-verity) → Browser Attestation (Web Integrity) → Your banking website no longer working on Linux because of "security". It’s Play Integrity for the PC. Encrypted video is a red herring. The real long game is to also get your "secure" video player to refuse playback if it detects watermark in the pirated video. This patches the analog hole. If you have attested Windows it can just ref…

Google SafetyNet is basically swiss cheese with lots of bypass solutions for custom ROMs. A TPM may only attest that it has received an expected set of measurements (hashes). As long as discrete TPMs or PCs with unlocked CPUs exist (w/o Boot Guard), one may simply take a TPM and replay "golden" measurements to it. Bypassing this would be trivially easy. A TPM does not have control over execution on the CPU. It only r…

And that’s why Play Integrity is based on hardware attestation and it is no longer a swiss cheese? And Win11 requires specifically TPM 2.0 (usually fTPM) not just any TPM.

You’re also entirely missing the point. Yes, you can bypass TPM based DRM to extract the unencrypted video (or just analog hole it) that’s why the game is to lock down the OS so you just can’t play it.

If all DVD players came with watermark detection instead of copy protection you wouldn’t have bootlegs because now every single client device needs to do the bypass instead of just once to extract unencrypted stream.

How many people have bypassed or hardware modded Playstations or Switches? This is what you’re talking about. Almost everyone will just accept it.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#145

Post by packetlost »

lenova wrote: post #113
t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

Long-time Windows user here that made the jump from Windows 11+WSL to Linux a few months ago. After test driving a few distros, I settled on CachyOS (an Arch-based distro)[1]. Performance wise it's smooth as heck, and Geekbench scores show it performing better than Win11 across the board. The default install uses KDE Plasma for its desktop, which is a perfect fit for Windows users like myself in terms of UX/UI. For a…

Woah, OnlyOffice looks like pretty much exactly what I've been looking for! Nice!

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#146

Post by DCH3416 »

Hawxy wrote: post #109
jpm_sd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a TL;DW? It's an hour long video

- Windows 11 has provided a hardware security baseline for Microsoft, with features that require hardware support (HVCI, TPM etc) to be enabled by default going forward, stating that Windows 10 strategy of off-by-default was a failure. - Admin accounts are a continued security problem within the Windows ecosystem, so a future version of Windows will be adding a new "Adminless" account model with linux-like just-in-ti…

> Win32 Applications will be bundled under the new Win32 App Isolation model, which provides the security benefits of UWP sandboxing & clean uninstalls without the API limitations of UWP.

Wow that thing they probably should've been doing in the first place. I'll be curious if it'll end up as a supervisor (AI) model or if each program will have its own scope of a file system. The latter of course will be very tricky with how intertwined legacy software can be for file and registry access.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#147

Post by Avamander »

prmoustache wrote: post #110
Avamander wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you've said does seem plausible. But on the other hand there are valid reasons for requiring a minimum baseline for Windows 11. The TPM requirements for example allow seamless BitLocker (which provides feature-parity with macOS), it allows secure system credential storage (in both consumer and enterprise contexts) and it's also useful for application developers. For example Chrome can defend user data better aga…

Allowing old devices without those TPM requirements to work would not limit security of the devices that can work with it. Sooner or later, these non windows 11 compliant machines will mostly disappear from most households and offices and will only attract retro computing and linux users when they will not match the usual memory requirements of the day. These are usually the kind of computers that came with 8GB or le…

I'm fairly sure that you'll be able to run W11 without a TPM for a relatively long time, it's just not supported. It's a risk you have to take, it's a requirement for OEMs not to shaft you with the hardware they sell.

If anything it's the CPU requirements that create a hard requirement for newer HW. But in that case, that support is a cost for them. Why should they spend the effort for what is likely going to be a very subpar experience?

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#148

Post by swozey »

ch_123 wrote: post #19
ale42 wrote: post #3

As a side note, Windows Server 2025 appears to share the OS base with Windows 11, but it doesn't seem to have the same requirements of CPU/TPM? Or am I wrong? (not that I'm suggesting to use Windows Server as a client OS, especially given its price tag)

I suspect this is because servers have a more predictable refresh cycle than consumer PCs/desktops. While some places run their servers to death, many places (particularly big corps who are generating the most revenue for MS anyway) will retire servers at the end of their warranty period and buy new ones. Given that, there is not the same need to force hardware updates. That said, it also illustrates how the TPM requ…

Not that it doesn't happen but I've worked in datacenters, including our favorite clouds, and cdn/video architecture for 15 years and have never seen servers replaced on any cadence that wasn't us losing a customer and me sticking a quad core xeon under my desk.

These are $10k-100k+ servers. My multitenant/offload capable NICs are usually $10k-25k themselves.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#149

Post by semi-extrinsic »

pinoy420 wrote: post #112
t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

Office is moving web based. OWA is first class now, with Outlook New being a thin wrapper around it with some natives. Also their mockups all use macs primarily so “go figure”

I can tell you very definitely that the OWA apps for Word, Excel and Powerpoint have a way to go before being usable on complex/legacy documents.

Re: Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs

#150

Post by mikkelam »

lenova wrote: post #113
t_mann wrote: post #77

Windows 11 looks like the perfect reason to give UNIX-based systems another try. Literally the only thing that's kept me hooked to Windows are the Office apps. They're baked into so many of my workflows, from creating simple graphics to doing my personal finances, and of course plenty of legacy documents that I'd like to continue being able to use. They're really Windows-native I've found, even the official versions…

Long-time Windows user here that made the jump from Windows 11+WSL to Linux a few months ago. After test driving a few distros, I settled on CachyOS (an Arch-based distro)[1]. Performance wise it's smooth as heck, and Geekbench scores show it performing better than Win11 across the board. The default install uses KDE Plasma for its desktop, which is a perfect fit for Windows users like myself in terms of UX/UI. For a…

How do you know if someone uses Arch Linux? Don't worry they'll tell you ;)

All kidding aside, I recently migrated to EndeavourOS, but CachyOS looks dope too

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